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  • Tichondrius
  • 300. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 01:43:55 PM PDT
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Priest:Discipline
2 piece – Pain suppression is usually used to lower incoming known damage, increasing healing by 10% for 10 seconds will likely result in large amounts of over heal since most healers focus heal the known incoming damage. Generally if 10% extra healing is needed then the point of the encounter has missed the mark.

4 piece – Procs are never a good mechanic for healers, as it stands between holy concentration, surge of light, various trinket procs it's hard to manage these to be advantageous. This set bonus only seems to be useful in a "when stars align" situation. Making my CoH/Penance cool down reset is nice, but generally tracking that cool down, especially penance is a strange idea. ie. Flash heal procs set bonus, tank has full health (due to large amounts of avoidance, block, mitigation and of course other healers), set bonus was completely wasted.

Glyph of SoR was the only way I could pvp... *sadface* 3.08 NEVER FORGET.

No matter what your vanity license plate says, it just ends up screaming "I'm a huge tool."
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  • 301. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 01:57:24 PM PDT
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Priest: Holy

2 pc: I'm not sure if it makes much sense of holy. The spell already increases healing by 40% for 10% so now it does 50%? Maybe this isn't the case, but it's not clear. A better bonus would be to reduce the cooldown of guardian spirit, or have the bonus act as a "Beacon of Light" around the target, allowing 40% increase to say those within 10 yards? I'm feeling underwhelmed.

4 pc: Folks have already said it. It doesn't work due to the short cooldown, GCD and lag. I'll never know it's up when I need to use it. Maybe have it as a 100% change to reduce the cooldown of CoH after a flash heal by 2 seconds?
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  • 302. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:02:46 PM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Priest

2 piece bonus - After your Pain Suppression and Guardian Spirit talents expire on your target, they grant your target 10% increased healing received for 10 sec.
4 piece bonus - Your Flash Heal spell has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on your Circle of Healing and Penance Spells.


As a Discipline priest, I feel as though neither of these bonuses are very useful. Pain Suppression, with its 2.4 minute cooldown, and which is generally saved for specific points in specific fights or oh@%#!! situations, just isn't cast that often. The bonus is by no means useless -- after all, a PS situation is probably where you do want increased healing on your target, so that's pretty nice, but it's only going to be relevant maybe three or four times per raid night.

The 4-piece also does not make me jump with glee. By the time I finish casting Penance and my first Flash Heal, the Penance CD will already be down to 5 seconds, and that's discounting latency. I'm not sure that a 15% chance to eliminate that is terribly attractive, especially when there are a grand total of two fights in the game right now where I'm using Penance on every cooldown (Algalon, phase 3 of Heroic Anub'arak -- our guild only runs 10-mans, which is a factor, I suppose). I realize that Icecrown Citadel will introduce new bosses and new fights, so maybe there will be a lot more encounters where the tank is constantly hovering on the brink of death, in which case, yay 4-piece! But if not, I foresee another tier where I'm passing on all tier gear until everyone else gets theirs because of my lackluster set bonuses.



Q u o t e:
Shaman

2 piece bonus - Your Riptide spell grants 20% spell haste for your next spellcast.
4 piece bonus - Your Chain Heal critical strikes cause the target to heal for 25% of the healed amount.


2-piece -- I missed the Riptide-LHW combo! Will be glad to make its acquaintance again. :) And now it'll be more flexible with the possibility of Riptide-fast Chain Heal as well.
4-piece -- Useful when feeding Chain Heals into the tank to keep the melee group up, I guess.

Altogether, I'm pretty pleased with the Shaman bonuses, although, as with t9, will be sad to grow out of t8 and say goodbye to the reduced cast time on Chain Heal.
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  • Nathrezim
  • 303. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:05:01 PM PDT
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Priest: Disc
2 piece-I can see this being useful in hard mode encounters or harder raiding, which will make sense for those using Tier 10. I see a lot of people comparing it to the Tier 9 2 piece bonus and I don't think that's giving it a fighting chance. I use Pain Suppression in hard mode tank healing rotations whether I'm tank healing or not so I think this set bonus will be very good for me.

4 piece-I don't see this as proccing enough to warrant me picking up 4 pieces. I do use flash heal quite a bit, but not enough in my usual healing to have it reset Penance's cooldown before Penance's cooldown is already up. Not saying it's not useful, just seems kind of a waste of a set bonus.

Priests need a "Dispel Stupid" before I pug again.
<3 to the priesties I talk to everyday! Too many to list but you know who you are! You make this forum!
http://nymsdiscipline.blogspot.com/
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  • 304. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:14:13 PM PDT
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Priest: Holy and Disc

4 piece: Further thoughts on just how bad this is for both specs. Doing some math on the proposed T10 4 piece shows that it is woefully weak in most RL raid situations. Basically for both Disc and Holy you are only going to get 1 ppm with what I consider "standard" spell spreads. On top of this the typical hurry up of the cooldown generated by the proc is a pitiful 2-3 seconds, as it is worth noting that standard chain casting lag with procs will almost certainly lead to a filler spell between proc and usage.

Holy: For Holy I assume a "rotation" of 1 FH in the 6 second CoH cooldown cycle. Thus for a 30 second window we are casting 5 flashes with a chance of proccing of only 54%. extending out to 1 minute we have only got an 80% chance of getting a proc in that one minute window. The average ammount of time gained from a proc is about a 2 second cooldown reduction. This is only a little more than 1 ppm over a long fight.

Disc: Despite first thoughts about pennance being notably better, when I thought about how I acutally cast while tank healing I realised that I only really cast 2 Flashes in the 8 second penance cycle with the rest of the time being PoM/Shield moving etc. Thus in a 32 second window we cast 8 flash heals with a 73% chance of getting proc. I believe that this will equate to about 1.5 ppm over the course of a long fight. And again because of how lag and procs interact you will average about a 3 sec cooldown reduction.

If they really want this to be a meaningful and used bonus they probably need to increase the proc chance by at least a factor of 2 times. At 30% proc chance the 30 second holy cycle has a 85% proc chance in 30 seconds and it is about 95% for the 32 sec disc cycle. However I would prefer to see the concept changed to the lock and load idea or simply have each Flash heal reduce the cooldown by 1-2 seconds per cast.

edit* corrected some maths

[ Post edited by Eleanor ]


In a game full of heroes why are healers treated as sidekicks?
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Bornakk
Blizzard Poster
  • 305. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:31:35 PM PDT
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Here are some updates for some of the healing set bonuses. The changes are bolded.

Priest
  • 2 piece bonus - Your Flash Heal critical strikes cause the target to heal for 25% of the healed amount over 9 sec.
  • 4 piece bonus - Your Circle of Healing and Penance spells have a 20% chance to cause your next Flash Heal cast within 6 sec to reset the cooldown on your Circle of Healing and Penance spells.


Paladin
  • 2 piece bonus - While your Divine Illumination talent is active, your healing spells are increased by 35%.
  • 4 piece bonus - Your Holy Shock spell causes the next Holy Light you cast within 10 sec to have 0.3 sec reduced cast time.


Shark.
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  • Sisters of Elune
  • 306. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:37:33 PM PDT
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resto shaman

set 2 bonus is awesome, i love riptide but i normally have to use it as just a standard hot and ignore the chain heal buff.

4 piece- i never use chain heal because its too unpredictable ( barring 5 mans) and often doesn't heal the people you want it to. i would like something more along the lines of LHW buff, but thats up to you guys.

Q u o t e:
Citadel is too wimpy of a word, if I had named it I would have chosen Icecrown Big Ominous Building of Badassery.
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  • Boulderfist
  • 307. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:39:22 PM PDT
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Shaman:Resto

2 pc: Wonderful 2-piece that helps with movement, one of our weaknesses as healers. Being able to catch up with a haste HW on a tank or CH on the raid helps alleviate the fact that only spell on the move is so weak.

4 pc: Better than the Tier 9 4-piece, but that isn't saying much. Looks to translate into more overheal on the front end, on an already front-loaded spell. Since the hot is based on the %healed the strongest hots will go on the person who already got the biggest heal, and thus needs it the least.

It is also an rng set-bonus, which doesn't help healers quite that much since we have to assume it isn't proccing when anticipating damage and reacting accordingly. The variable strength of the hot also makes intelligent tracking of the hot difficult, thus we can't tell whether we need to heal that hotted person or not. I would much rather have crits cause a percentage of that heal to add to the heal of the next target down the line. The percentage would likely need to be smaller than 25% but it would help address some of the weakness of CH, but then again could push us into CH bots.
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  • 310. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:52:05 PM PDT
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I'd still rather use Renew and go for off set pieces as holy.

Definitely killing Greater Heal for discipline.

I'm unimpressed when I see the words Flash Heal honestly.

[ Post edited by Polaro ]

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  • 311. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:52:39 PM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Here are some updates for some of the healing set bonuses. The changes are bolded.
Paladin
[ul]
  • 2 piece bonus - While your Divine Illumination talent is active, your healing spells are increased by 35%.



  • This is MILES better, i really like this 2 piece!

    The reason I feel this is because it creates a great combo. You can Avenging Wrath + Divine Illumination (since they are on the same cooldown) and pop divine plea.

    You end up getting 5% extra healing while divine plea is active. (20% + 35% - 50% = 5)

    Please keep this one in!!

    [ Post edited by Meroko ]


    "As a Paladin. 20 INT raid buffed gives: 360 Max Mana, 6 Spell Power, 3.6 Mp5, 0.14% Crit"
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    • 313. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:55:46 PM PDT
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    Priest: Disc

    2 piece (revised): This is a much better bonus that delivers a nice increase in healing. However questions must be asked as to how it works? will it replace the previous one or will it roll like ignite? Also what is the tick rate? 1 second or 3 seconds?

    4 piece (revised): Better but the proc chance is still too low as you will only get about 2 Procs per minute. Value is still reduced by how latency interacts with procs like this.

    In a game full of heroes why are healers treated as sidekicks?
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    • 314. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 02:58:42 PM PDT
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    Q u o t e:
    Here are some updates for some of the healing set bonuses. The changes are bolded.

    Priest
    • 2 piece bonus - Your Flash Heal critical strikes cause the target to heal for 25% of the healed amount over 9 sec.
    • 4 piece bonus - Your Circle of Healing and Penance spells have a 20% chance to cause your next Flash Heal cast within 6 sec to reset the cooldown on your Circle of Healing and Penance spells.





    That's a lot better than original one.
    For holy, I will still use 2pcs T9 over T10 because (empower)Renew and PoM still better than Flash heal in most situation and I don't like RNG of 4pcs when raid heal.

    For Disc, I might change to 4pcs T10 because I can heal tank better with bigger Fheal, and faster Penance.
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    • 315. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 03:00:06 PM PDT
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    Q u o t e:

    Priest
    • 2 piece bonus - Your Flash Heal critical strikes cause the target to heal for 25% of the healed amount over 9 sec.
    • 4 piece bonus - Your Circle of Healing and Penance spells have a 20% chance to cause your next Flash Heal cast within 6 sec to reset the cooldown on your Circle of Healing and Penance spells.




    PRIEST:DISCIPLINE
    2 piece – Big improvement over the previous. I like this alot, especially for Discipline.
    4 piece – Much better than before. It's a bit of a wonky bonus. It's taken me a minute to entirely understand how it works. But it's good. With this change, the proc is much more useful than before.

    [ Post edited by Vandeventer ]

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    • Burning Legion
    • 316. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 03:07:07 PM PDT
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    PALADIN:HOLY
    2 piece - This is better than the original bonus, but still largely useless to raiding paladins. Divine Illumination is used to enable painless Holy Light spamming, and Holy Light spamming is already practically the highest HPS tank healing method in the game. Increasing healing done by paladins when they are already outputting enough HPS for 99% of situations is not helpful, and paladins already have an ability that does this if they do think they need it in Avenging Wrath. A better change if you're set on adding a healing bonus to Divine Illumination would be to have it also increase haste by 20% for the duration - which actually would provide a meaningful benefit by increasing the granularity of the heals. 35% more healing when paladins are already guaranteed to be chaincasting Holy Light (which is the entire reason to use Divine Illumination in the first place) is only going to be overheal. And let's not forget that Divine Illumination has a three minute CD, making the paladin set bonus the only healing set bonus that is useful only once or twice an encounter.

    [ Post edited by Sonohako ]

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    • Lightbringer
    • 317. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 03:11:46 PM PDT
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    paladin

    i must admit i get envious when i hear every other class in the game talking about set bonuses they love since every single holy pally set bonus pretty much sucks. at least i know i dont have to worry about getting slightly subpar gear to get a 4 piece bonus since theyre horrible anyways. do ANY of the devs actually play a holly pally because youd never be able to tell with the gimped up gear you give us
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    Ome
    • Cenarion Circle
    • 318. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 03:17:23 PM PDT
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    DRUID:RESTO

    ----------------
    2 PIECE - While this looks nice at first glance, the amount of bonus healing you'll actually get is very easy to calculate. Since spell power is evenly distributed across all ticks, we can simply take a naked druid in caster form to calculate the exact bonus healing received from the bonus:

    Naked WG Rank 4: 338 + 304 + 270 + 236 + 203 + 170 + 135 = 1656 [this matches the tooltip amount of healing]

    Adding 2 piece bonus will make it seven ticks of 338 => 338 * 7 = 2366

    The amount of additional healing per WG target = 2366 - 1656 = 710
    Depending on the fight (which determines the frequency at which we cast WG), this is a solid increase to our overall raid-wide throughput. Hitting up to 6 targets will net up to 4260 additional healing per application.

    ----------------

    4 PIECE - The strength of this bonus cannot be determined until the following are clarified:

    1. When the RJ jumps, does it remove itself from the original target in order to apply a fresh RJ to the new target, or does the jump result two RJs on two targets. This can be bad when you want your RJ to be isolated on a single target taking periodic damage and it suddenly vanishes onto a player that doesn't need the RJ and suddenly you have a HPS loss on the target that needs the healing. This is also bad if you RJ the tank and it suddenly vanishes, preventing you from SM and having to use a GCD to reapply it. Depending on how this work, it affects almost everything else below...

    2. How does the proc pick which player to jump to? Will it be smart and target the player with the lowest health in range?

    3. What is the range of the jump?

    4. Can a "jumped RJ" proc the bonus again?

    5. What happens if there is no other player in range on a jump? Will it work like PoM and just vanish completely with no jump?

    [ Post edited by Ome ]

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    • Rexxar
    • 319. Re: Tier-10 Bonuses Feedback   10/09/2009 03:22:43 PM PDT
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    Q u o t e:
    Here are some updates for some of the healing set bonuses. The changes are bolded.

    Priest
    • 2 piece bonus - Your Flash Heal critical strikes cause the target to heal for 25% of the healed amount over 9 sec.
    • 4 piece bonus - Your Circle of Healing and Penance spells have a 20% chance to cause your next Flash Heal cast within 6 sec to reset the cooldown on your Circle of Healing and Penance spells.


    Paladin
    • 2 piece bonus - While your Divine Illumination talent is active, your healing spells are increased by 35%.
    • 4 piece bonus - Your Holy Shock spell causes the next Holy Light you cast within 10 sec to have 0.3 sec reduced cast time.




    Better, but the 4 piece still isn't very good. Please drop the idea of resetting the cooldown, and make it a percent chance to increase the amount of targets that CoH will hit. The idea of RNG resetting a 6 second cooldown is not a very exciting one.

    However one clarification please: Is it a 20% chance for each person the spell hits or is it a 20% chance per spell? Because the former is good as it makes the proc very reliable, and the latter still makes the set bonus pretty awful (for holy priests).

    If you really want to make priests happy (you know you do =) ) please drop the idea of resetting the cooldown entirely, and do this: Your next CoH will hit 4 additional targets, and your next Penance will tick one additional time.

    [ Post edited by Iluc ]

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