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Q u o t e:
I didn't say that. :)

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So you're saying that Garrosh, who's shown no respect to Thrall, Saurfang or anyone else, who's got something to prove but hasn't shown who he want to prove himself TO other than himself, is going to suddenly see the light in IC and take on a less bullheaded approach.

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Q u o t e:


So Garrosh isn't going to be leading the Horde?

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/smack

C'mon man...Kis clearly said the Garrosh you hate is not the Garrosh you're going to get in Cata. He's reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and attending anger management seminars. All is good.

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Q u o t e:
I didn't say that. :)

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So the killing of small Alliance children is still on, then? Which is it?

I'm sorry to sound pissy, but unless you're planning on giving Garrosh a complete brain transplant we're still going to be cast in the role of horrible baby-eating monsters with M. Hellscream in charge.

I mean...seriously? "Hurrrr we don't need no stinkin' trade routes, let's attack the Alliance for the lulz in the middle of an offensive on a life-sucking death entity" is supposed to magically become "Oh hey guys, it's all cool, FRO TEH HRODE!11!1" just like that?

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Q u o t e:
Instead of going from response to response, read through all my posts in this thread. It should give you a decent enough idea. If not, well, you'll have to wait and see.

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Read entire thread. Have also read all Blizzard-approved supplimentary material, including comics and quests. He's still horrible.

Edit: If Blizz was going for some kind of redemption story here with Garrosh, they did their jobs a little TOO well on making him despised.

I think it's more Garrosh as he is currently won't be leading the Horde, his position in life is likely to change

yet. I still expect that they're going to change him to leader of the Horde however.

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Q u o t e:


Read entire thread. Have also read all Blizzard-approved supplimentary material, including comics and quests. He's still horrible.

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...which means you have incomplete information. Relax, chill out and let the story unfold in 3.3 and 4.0

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Q u o t e:
Let me put it this way: if things were going to turn out as badly as most of you are predicting, I wouldn't be here saying it won't.

I completely understand where you're coming from, as you're working with the information you have, most of which is what you've seen thus far in the game. I understand the concern based on that information.

However, my information is more complete. The common belief that the Horde will be under the Garrosh you dislike so much and take on his qualities is not going to come to pass.

I realize it's difficult, but relax. As I said before, we're not going to destroy the core of what makes the Horde interesting and compelling.

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Thank you for replying, I appreciate you putting in the time and effort to come here and talk with us.

I apologize if I come off as cynical, and I understand that you have more information than we do. It's just that the information we have so overwhelmingly points to Garrosh being completely irredeemable that a lot of us have a very hard time coming up with any way in which he could be made more sympathetic without it looking unrealistic. I'll admit it, I like Varian. I like him because of what he said to Anduin about thinking of himself as pretty much a tool of war and hoping for peace under his son's reign. But Varian always had nobler qualities present that made that pet-the-dog moment believable and I could breathe a sigh of relief that he wasn't actually the bloodthirsty, warmongering racist I'd been starting to worry he was.

Garrosh, in contrast, has been by turns pathetic and horrifying, and it might just be me but after realizing that he has no capacity to see his enemies as anything other than targets for his weapons, down to their children, I desperately wanted him to die. And I'm trying very, very hard to envision anything good he does in the future that could possibly make up for that.

That having been said, I'm ready to see where this goes. I'm along for the ride, I'm excited for Cataclysm, and I'd like to say "do your worst" but instead I'll just beg pathetically for you to do something awesome with Vol'jin. Troll main, here. :P

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Q u o t e:
Instead of going from response to response, read through all my posts in this thread. It should give you a decent enough idea. If not, well, you'll have to wait and see.

At the end of the day, we know more about Garrosh as a character and where he's going than you do, and trust in where we're taking this will have to come into play at some point. We know all about your concerns. We're not ignoring them when we say we're not changing the direction of where we're heading. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

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After reading every one of your posts on this thread, and having Saurfang's and Garrosh conversation (Warsong Hold) in my head, and not hearing anything about Varok from icecrown or Cataclysm yet, i think the most important question has yet to be answered?!

What happens to Varok Saurfang, where does he fit in all this?!?

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Q u o t e:


Thank you for replying, I appreciate you putting in the time and effort to come here talk with us.

I apologize if I come off as cynical, and I understand that you have more information than we do. It's just that the information we have so overwhelmingly points to Garrosh being completely irredeemable that a lot of us have a very hard time coming up with any way in which he could be made more sympathetic without it looking unrealistic.

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Q u o t e:

Garrosh, in contrast, has been by turns pathetic and horrifying, and it might just be me but after realizing that he has no capacity to see his enemies as anything other than targets for his weapons, down to their children, I desperately wanted him to die. And I'm trying very, very hard to envision anything good he does in the future that could possibly make up for that.

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She said it much better than I did, so to wit: "What she said".

If you think Garrosh is bad, the Alliance is lead by a hotheaded King who needs to die. I would love to see Jaina take over... I hope she isn't killed in the Icecrown Raid/Dungeon.

Yeah I know... blah blah blah the King has a reason to hate the horde. However, I don't believe his interests are in the best interest for his people and he doesn't have any honor.

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Q u o t e:
If you think Garrosh is bad, the Alliance is lead by a hotheaded King who needs to die. I would love to see Jaina take over... I hope she isn't killed in the Icecrown Raid/Dungeon.

Yeah I know... blah blah blah the King has a reason to hate the horde. However, I don't believe his interests are in the best interest for his people and he doesn't have any honor.

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If Jaina dies I will rage forever. She has way too much potential that would be wasted by chaining her to Arthas' story permanently by killing her up there. I can't see any reason for her to die beyond the oft-repeated "it'd start war between the Horde and the Alliance!!" line and really, uh. We're already there without needing to make Jaina the Sacrifice Maiden.

Like I said, I like Varian, although I do think he's a hothead. I don't think he's right at all, but he's sympathetic and I can believe that if he were to somehow screw things up for the Alliance he'd take responsibility and feel immense guilt over it, which is really all I can ask.

While we are on the subject of lore, and horde hostility, can you please rethink this?

"As they continue their ascent, the Alliance and Horde heroes ultimately end up outside of the citadel where their hatred for one another erupts into a battle for dominance over the Rampart of Skulls. Players will join in battle alongside High Overlord Saurfang on the Orgrim's Hammer gunship or Muradin Bronzebeard on The Skybreaker in a unique encounter. Each faction will protect its gunship and try to destroy the other one in a back-and-forth battle to see who is truly worthy of facing the Lich King."

Are our military leaders really this daft in the head?

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Q u o t e:
Are our military leaders really this daft in the head?

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This coming from a dwarf is somehow awesome. Now all you need is to tug at your beard and go "Hrrmph!" into a tankard.

Source for that? Interesting, I really had no idea that people could be so foolish...

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Q u o t e:
If you think Garrosh is bad, the Alliance is lead by a hotheaded King who needs to die. I would love to see Jaina take over... I hope she isn't killed in the Icecrown Raid/Dungeon.

Yeah I know... blah blah blah the King has a reason to hate the horde. However, I don't believe his interests are in the best interest for his people and he doesn't have any honor.

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^ This.

Also Thrall went thru many more years of treatment of that sort then Wrynn did, in the end he let it make him Stronger and learned rather then become some hot headed crybaby. He doesnt hate the alliance in such a way as to forsake all other risks to attack them, his thought is for the good of his people ( all the people of the horde )

Garrosh, I see comming of age, many people forget he is young, born just befor the 2nd war I think. He'll gain wisdom. Otherwise Saurfang will prolly slaughter him.

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Q u o t e:
Source for that? Interesting, I really had no idea that people could be so foolish...

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It is on the community page... and "Hrrmph!" it might be ok if they did not go and get a dwarf mixed up in all this.

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Q u o t e:
Yeah I know... blah blah blah the King has a reason to hate the horde. However, I don't believe his interests are in the best interest for his people and he doesn't have any honor.

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You know, the horrible thing is, as matters stand now if Garrosh takes control of the Horde then Varian will have been right.

I am skeptical of how well this is going to turn out vis-a-vis Garrosh being leader, considering that he seems to have insulted/kicked out 3/5th of his allies in the Horde at last count by barring them from Orgrimmar.

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh, I see comming of age, many people forget he is young, born just befor the 2nd war I think. He'll gain wisdom.

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Garrosh is older than Thrall. He has no excuse.

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh, I see comming of age, many people forget he is young, born just befor the 2nd war I think. He'll gain wisdom. Otherwise Saurfang will prolly slaughter him.

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If the timeline is still correct he's older than Thrall by a few years. It's a matter of native intelligence, not youth.

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Q u o t e:
I am skeptical of how well this is going to turn out vis-a-vis Garrosh being leader, considering that he seems to have insulted/kicked out 3/5th of his allies in the Horde at last count by barring them from Orgrimmar.

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I am fine with this, because I'll be thrilled if the Darkspear are like, "Oh, well, to hell with you, we're sworn to Thrall's Horde anyway" and go tear it up in STV with Trol'kalar. I can just imagine the other jungle troll tribes seeing them coming and laughing because the nerds they used to pick on are back, only to realize with dawning horror that the nerds are there for revenge.

Yeah, this is on my Christmas list.

Anyone else read the lore??? thrall is just a violent as garrosh....... leave it at that listin to the blue posts