If you don't like lore in an -RPG- i suggest you go play something like Tetris.

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If you don't like lore in an -RPG- i suggest you go play something like Tetris.

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Um, Tetris has lore too. Those blocks didn't come from nowhere, y'know.

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I don't doubt that they're trying to create something complex and interesting (I was impressed by Kisirani's acknowledgment of Thrall as a less-than-perfect leader, because I'd been wondering if his issues were due to Blizzard lacking time to flesh things out, or if we were supposed to be picking up on them), although admittedly my first thought on reading some of the blue posts in here was "Aw crap, she(?)'s trying to break it to us gently that they need to turn it into WAR to keep PvP rolling." Giving Blizz the benefit of the doubt, though, I'm just alarmed at the disconnect between what's going on in the game ("Garrosh is screwing everything up, fear for your future") and what Kisirani's been saying here, which sounds like "Aww, he's not that bad, guys. You'll get used to him."

TL; DR: I wasn't worried about the direction of the story in Cataclysm until a blue started defending Garrosh.

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Well, I like how the blue defended Garrosh, I don't like how it seems that he will be getting an adjustment to his personality again this X-Pac. Hopefully this one for good.

The problem that I see with Garrosh isn't really that he will change his personallity again, it's that he will be the PERFECT choice for the Horde at this point. He will tolerate the "Evil" actions of undead and blood elves who still choose to, maybe even orcish warlocks. As long as they say "Oh yeah, this'll help me kill the Alliance!" Since WoW the Horde had became something that I hoped we wouldn't get. If we wanted war we should have suggested to Blizzard to let us play the Dark Horde let by Rend instead of the Horde in all honesty. Because now you got four Hordes probably.

-Thralls Horde (As I doubt all Orcs will follow Garrosh, some might go with Thrall to "Mend" the earth.
-Garrosh's Horde (The Horde we know and love, led by Garrosh.
- Now, you had two kinds of Horde. The Ek ones, and the Kali Ones. Garrosh is kinda saying screw the Wc3 Horde and embracing the Horde that we have currently in WoW.
-The Dark Horde (The ones who refused to join's Thrall Horde as they thought that all humans should be killed instantly and that they shouldn't run.)

-The Fel Horde (The Fel Orcs in Outland)

That is the problems I see.

Thrall = Awesome

Thrall is badass to the extreme. He is merciful and ferocious all at the same time. If anything at all Thrall is too smart to lead the Horde. The dude is just too wise/int (though he is a shaman still using a 2-hander I hope we can look past that).

note to developers: Thrall needs to become a powerful guardian/god!

Garrosh = Normal Guy

This guy is in the spot light, love him/hate him he is pretty cool right now aside from the whole "I SLAUGHTER TEH WORLD" attitude. As long as he is taught a life lesson here soon he'll be bumped up to Cool Guy.

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Garrosh = Normal Guy

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Good one.

research Grom.

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Good one.

research Grom.

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?
Grom = Garrosh?
?
Father = Son?
?
a point to your post would be nice :D.

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The problem that I see with Garrosh isn't really that he will change his personallity again, it's that he will be the PERFECT choice for the Horde at this point. He will tolerate the "Evil" actions of undead and blood elves who still choose to, maybe even orcish warlocks. As long as they say "Oh yeah, this'll help me kill the Alliance!"

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This is (if I'm understanding you correctly) what I meant when I said I was worried that a blue was defending Garrosh. I prefer Garrosh as a problem child, not as someone I'm supposed to warm up to because suddenly he's totes what the Horde needs (after years of "what the Horde needs" being supplies and a better reputation).

The thing that bothers me about Garrosh becoming the leader is not just his personality, but the fact that he's BROWN. Orcs are supposed to be GREEN. I mean, that's one of their defining characteristics! I never much cared for the Mag'har, and I'm sad that one of them is suddenly going to LEAD the horde...

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The thing that bothers me about Garrosh becoming the leader is not just his personality, but the fact that he's BROWN. Orcs are supposed to be GREEN. I mean, that's one of their defining characteristics! I never much cared for the Mag'har, and I'm sad that one of them is suddenly going to LEAD the horde...

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It mostly distresses me because it seems like the point there is, "Hey, orcs are this way by nature! All that claiming that they were only aggressive due to the demon blood? Totally undermined! Now we can get down to fightin'!"

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If anything at all Thrall is too smart to lead the Horde.

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This has been my opinion for quite a while now. He's just too damned good for us.

The only good that can come from this plot development is that he gets to snuggle with hot blonde mages (i.e. Jaina) and be awesome without the constraints of being responsible for all the the idiocy of the Horde under Garrosh.

The weight of having our faction attached to all the disasters that having Garrosh as leader will ultimately bring about therefore rests in its proper place.

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The weight of having our faction attached to all the disasters that having Garrosh as leader will ultimately bring about therefore rests in its proper place.

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Our faction will possibly be resting in its "proper place" too, after the Alliance is done killing us down to the last warrior just to ensure their survival. After this, there'll be no chance at peace between the two factions whatsoever, because the Alliance will have no reason to trust a member of the Horde ever again, or even to not kill them on sight just to be safe. Thrall was right in Undercity, we've had our second chance and we've blown it. We really are the monsters the Alliance thinks we are.

That should take care of the "there's no reasoning for PvP when we're always working together" posts for the life of the game.

woot Kisirani, you tell them all how it is. People tend to think they know more than the Creaters before it is finished. I am excited and cant wait to see how this all plays out.

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Our faction will possibly be resting in its "proper place" too, after the Alliance is done killing us down to the last warrior just to ensure their survival. After this, there'll be no chance at peace between the two factions whatsoever, because the Alliance will have no reason to trust a member of the Horde ever again, or even to not kill them on sight just to be safe. Thrall was right in Undercity, we've had our second chance and we've blown it. We really are the monsters the Alliance thinks we are.

That should take care of the "there's no reasoning for PvP when we're always working together" posts for the life of the game.

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It's a shame too... Garrosh was introduced and it wasn't even about Varian. He ruined every meeting that they saw each other (Garrosh that is).

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This was the part where you relay to him that Garrosh's offensive attacked and decimated the Alliance, from behind, while they were busy attacking the Scourge, right?

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Yup. And cheered, believing anything was justified as long as the Front wasn't in the hands of Alliance.

And since it was a scouting party, not any real offensive, they really had no chance of holding back the Scourge. They went in, killing Alliance ... just to kill Alliance. Even though, in the end, they fell to the Scourge, which anyone with an active brain cell would have been able to tell was going to happen.

That's Garrosh's version of fighting and war. You win the battle. HOO-RAH. The war? Uhm.... we'll get back to you about that.

Troops? Disposable. As long as they fight well, they gain honor in the afterlife.

(Shame the ones at the Front probably won't be seeing the afterlife, as they're being raised and enslaved as Scourge...)

I wonder where saurfang is in all this lore, Is he to be fated in a tragic but heroic death like the rest of his family? or will he be an actual "?? Boss" finally in the new expansion? i'd actually like to see some more with saurfang.

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That's Garrosh's version of fighting and war. You win the battle. HOO-RAH. The war? Uhm.... we'll get back to you about that.

Troops? Disposable. As long as they fight well, they gain honor in the afterlife.

(Shame the ones at the Front probably won't be seeing the afterlife, as they're being raised and enslaved as Scourge...)

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This sums up perfectly what I dislike so much about Garrosh. I can handle a lot of "evil" behavior from NPCs and still think they're pretty awesome (I like Sylvanas, even though I think she's been playing everyone and she's got hers coming). It's willful ignorance and self-defeating behavior that makes me completely uninterested in a character.

Granted the Horde's always had that "die honorably FOR THE HORDE" thing going, but under Thrall it was more "live well, die well if you must," and for these people it's, "GUYS GUYS. SOMEBODY HOLD MY BEER. WATCH THIS---WHEEEE....!"

Because why value life or even quality of life--that of your enemies, or of your own people--when your culture is based around the idea that it all leads up to looking more badass than the other guy when your brains hit the floor and using anything else as a measure of your worth is for the weak?

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Garrosh is fine. How many people roll horde for the lore? Honestly... most people just choose them because of their PvP advantages and follow others. Obviously there's SOME that are interested in the lore on the horde side, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that...

Um... horde are the bad guys. Garrosh is angry and wants to kill kill kill. That sounds like a bad guy to me, live with it. He's the perfect mascott for the Horde Faction. What did you expect? Even Thrall is filled with rage and bloodlust, just not as much as this knucklehead, only reason they avoided war with Jaina was because they both were stranded.

Look, argue it all you want, but Horde are clearly the bad guys. Stop complaining that your leader is a bad guy.

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I roll Horde for lore, it's been stated by blues that the Alliance and Horde are shades of Grey, Horde is not all bad guys, i'm sick of people saying that it's implausible that Garrosh went from depressed and lethargic in Garadar to Bloodthirsty and Aggressive in Warsong Hold, picture this if you will.

You're sick, vomitting blood all day, in a village of people in similar or worse conditions, you grow up hearing that while your dad was tough, he was the first person to damn your race to a shattered, dieing world, but wait, there's one person who's been like a mother to you through all this...BOOM she's dieing all of a sudden.

then there's THIS

http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest:Hero_of_the_Mag%27har#Transcript_from_final_cutscene

Of Course he's going to change! He's riding the high from knowing his dad and to a lesser extent HE didn't damn his people. He wants to prove himself.
Do those sound like evil people to you?

And on the subject of the Broken Front
1. Varian had already declared war

2. They attacked without Garrosh's knowledge, these were standard Horde Soldiers on a scouting mission that took it upon themselves to attack, yes the commander on the airship agreed with their actions, no I don't, and I know it's one of THE most controversial actions ever.

BUT

People are using it as an example of "suicide missions" garrosh will send people on when he had no prior knowledge of the attack, and even Saurfang said he'd been winning in Northrend, he didn't say "oh Hellscreams been screwing up and I've been having to pick up the pieces"


Rydia i've seen alot of biased people on these forums but I have to say you take the cake.

Horde's not perfect but we're not the badguys in WoW

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The common belief that the Horde will be under the Garrosh you dislike so much and take on his qualities is not going to come to pass.

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So Garrosh isn't going to be leading the Horde?