Garrosh Hellscream was itroduced in Burning Crusade as the leader of the Mag'har. He was depressed greatly, he knew not of his fathers deeds to the orcs. He was deppresed because the Greathmother was dieing. He was going to let his people die.

Fast foward after Thrall tells Garrosh of his fathers deeds and we enter Wrath.

Garrosh Hellscream has taken a new persona. We see him first at the pre-wrath event. Challenging Thrall due to that Garrosh, the very orc who was going to let his people die, thinks he could lead better than Thrall.

Fast Foward.

Warsong hold, he is shown to not have the temper for battle, Saurfang is attempting to guide him.

Fast Foward to Dalaran.

Causes the Spark at Dalaran when the Alliance and Horde are called upon for Yogg.

Fast Foward to Cata.

Garrosh is the new Warchief!


Uhhhhhhhhhh....... How did this happen? Better question. Will Carine be killed by Garrosh or just by his age. If not by old age, then the Tauren are literally out of the Horde for the most part. They would be atleast due to he was the one who united all the tribes under the banner of the Horde. And the Horde executes him? Hah. Tauren are gone.

Garrosh is not wise one bit, unless they do another attitude adjustment with no reason behind it. Perhapse he will finally decide even though countless times he has said no and not listened and perhapse he will listen finally to Thrall! Sounds like how Garrosh is turning out to be.

My point. Blizzard from day one of making him, seems to not know where he is going. First he was emo, then a moron, and now Warchief as Thrall is away? Uhhhh....

Also, I take it with unless they are changing how the Goblins got into the Alliance, that has to be it, due to that Thrall would have to be a big player in the Horde still if he would be putting them in it.

/endrant

2nd post probably will be "THIS IS NEW!"

Logically, there's only so much leeway Blizzard has right now. We're dealing with Alpha (if that) level

playtest leaks for the Cat stuff, so it's kinda quick for all of us to jump to conclusions.

I do agree though, another thread along these lines had a question of if Garrosh is a plant like Onyxia in

SW is. We'll have to see. As far as I know however, he's a brute of an NPC though there somehow seems

to be some grey matter up there in his skull that's survived all the beatings... He may prove to be a ticket

back to the Dark Horde, so we'll see. There's way too much "War" in my opinion involved in this, unless it's

going to be done well. Blizzard has yet to release alot of details, and though Garrosh has potential, I

have yet to see it.

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Q u o t e:
Logically, there's only so much leeway Blizzard has right now. We're dealing with Alpha (if that) level

playtest leaks for the Cat stuff, so it's kinda quick for all of us to jump to conclusions.

I do agree though, another thread along these lines had a question of if Garrosh is a plant like Onyxia in

SW is. We'll have to see. As far as I know however, he's a brute of an NPC though there somehow seems

to be some grey matter up there in his skull that's survived all the beatings... He may prove to be a ticket

back to the Dark Horde, so we'll see. There's way too much "War" in my opinion involved in this, unless it's

going to be done well. Blizzard has yet to release alot of details, and though Garrosh has potential, I

have yet to see it.

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You are very correct. But the Dark Horde... Bah I hated it. It was crushed so easily due to their leaders inabilitys to work with each other.

But all in all you make good points and this is only for right now of what we know.

Which may lead to Saurfang or Thrall whipping the little snot into some common sense. Garrosh sure

seems to have improved ALOT if he can defeat Thrall, who may end up holding back.

That at least would explain it.

Then again, he might JUST be the disaster I portend. Silly, silly Orc. Think's he's better than Thrall.

psha

WooT Blue post! XP

Anyway, thanks for the info, it really helps to see that he's improving, though as Alliance I'm still pretty sure

he and Varian are perfect rivals for butting heads... Sure seems to be set up that way.

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Q u o t e:
WooT Blue post! XP

Anyway, thanks for the info, it really helps to see that he's improving, though as Alliance I'm still pretty sure

he and Varian are perfect rivals for butting heads... Sure seems to be set up that way.

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That's quite true. Garrosh lives in his fathers shadow, and Varian is just...well...hmm...a brat? A whiner? I dunno, someone from the Alliance help me out here.

Either way, it should make for some interesting dialogue.

Having read the comic, what he's seen of the Horde is mostly a group of people that don't hold to their

word and are inclined to fight despite their leaders saying, "no one will dare challenge me!" And then from

seemingly nowhere, "Oh noes, emo horde!"

It's a bit hard to figure why they're left alive if they really are going against their leader, though there's little

time left for Thrall to prove the point to Varian that these people don't belong to his Horde. In the comics

they're almost all horde races, though not exactly callable as hordies...

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh is a character with a lot to prove. I realize there's a great deal of consternation out there concerning the tales of what's to come, but I want to reassure you that we understand that concern. We know where you're coming from.

Why are we still going this route? With all respect, you haven't seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. You've seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend. :)

(Mind you, that doesn't mean he's Thrall, either.)

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I want a cookie...I've been saying this for awhile!

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Q u o t e:
With all respect, you haven't seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. You've seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend. :) (Mind you, that doesn't mean he's Thrall, either.)

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The fault with the character I have right now is that he has shown little capacity for growth, maturity or learning.

The brash, vainglorious, strategy-less leader of Warsong Hold is still the same after the events of the Wrath Gate and the Broken Front. Blizz writers have even gone out of their way to put in the flavor events of Thrall's and Garrosh's arrival at the Argent Tournament; events, I believe, that show he has no interest in learning and just brute-forcing things through.

He has exhibited no real thought to battles. He wields the Horde like a hammer and smashes things. Everything gives the sense that, eventually, he'll smash that hammer so hard that the hammer breaks.

And he's shown himself so eager to wield that hammer that he swings it at just about everything. Heck, if it wasn't for Thrall, I got the sense he'd try to smash the Argent Crusade, since it has a ready base in Icecrown.

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh lives in his fathers shadow, and Varian is just...well...hmm...a brat? A whiner? I dunno, someone from the Alliance help me out here.

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Varian's dealing with having a split personality; one that was kept docile and enthralled by magic, the other forced to see the underside of the Horde, the one that Jaina steadfastly refuses to see or acknowledge.
The second one is dominant at the moment, and it's no help that a hothead like Garrosh is just confirming the worst conclusions Varian came to with what he saw while captured by Orcs.

I'm not too worried about what Garrosh will do. Just let him do what he needs to do, and if he makes a little mistake, we may just need to send some people in and.. well.. "clean up"..

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh is a character with a lot to prove. I realize there's a great deal of consternation out there concerning the tales of what's to come, but I want to reassure you that we understand that concern. We know where you're coming from.

Why are we still going this route? With all respect, you haven't seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. You've seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend. :)

(Mind you, that doesn't mean he's Thrall, either.)

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This is EXACTLY what i've been saying. Not that i want to see Thrall hit the road, but he's most likely got bigger and better things to do.

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh is a character with a lot to prove. I realize there's a great deal of consternation out there concerning the tales of what's to come, but I want to reassure you that we understand that concern. We know where you're coming from.

Why are we still going this route? With all respect, you haven't seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. You've seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend. :)

(Mind you, that doesn't mean he's Thrall, either.)

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Sweet a blue post.

But anyway, thanks. I suppose that does mean that Garrosh will progress. Though with the massive rumors of killing Carine... It is giving bad thoughts of his progression. Though perhapse as you said he will not be the disaster that we see him as.

It does seem likely after all to change his persona yet again.

It's really amazing that this is the way the future will go, but since we have a blue responding, we do need

to follow what was said as far as likely outcomes. It does appear he can develop, though they likely may

have more to work with considering the community of players have started to weigh in on how this all will

work out.

Thoughts?

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh is a character with a lot to prove. I realize there's a great deal of consternation out there concerning the tales of what's to come, but I want to reassure you that we understand that concern. We know where you're coming from.

Why are we still going this route? With all respect, you haven't seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. You've seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend. :)

(Mind you, that doesn't mean he's Thrall, either.)

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So there's a chance it may not be a total *%$&# come Cata?

I'm interested to see how this plays out...

Let me first say that, though pretty bada**, I agree that the old bloodthirsty horde of the first and second wars probably wouldn't work too well in modern azeroth.

That being said, Garrosh could still be a good leader. He definitely is his father's son, that's for sure, and personally I think Grom was a great leader, probably one I like more than Thrall. I think Thrall is a better warchief than Grom would have been, but Thrall is like perfect: great tactician, great diplomat, leads with compassion, etc. But I think perfect heroes kinda make for a boring story. Same reason i don't really like superman, he has too many powers. Grom had plenty of faults, no one can deny that, but in the end he died one of the greatest heroes the horde has ever seen. If his son does grow up just a little bit, we could be looking at a Grom 2.0 leading the horde, which I don't think I'd mind one bit =)

Garrosh is a better "Warchief" if the term is taken at face value. Thrall is much better at being a leader, with all the diplomacy, oration, and tact that comes with it.

Knowing that Garrosh is good at war, but bad at most leadership, the Horde might revert to a council or elders system, lead by... the Earthen Ring maybe? Though if the Earthen Ring is going to be a neutral faction in Cataclysm, that wouldn't make sense. So, some group of wise advisors then. Meanwhile, Garrosh has full command of the military, but is kept in check somewhat by the council?

It could go either way.

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Q u o t e:
Garrosh is a character with a lot to prove. I realize there's a great deal of consternation out there concerning the tales of what's to come, but I want to reassure you that we understand that concern. We know where you're coming from.

Why are we still going this route? With all respect, you haven't seen the entirety of who Garrosh is. You've seen a great deal of his faults, certainly, but people grow over time, and you may find, come Cataclysm, that he is not quite the disaster you portend. :)

(Mind you, that doesn't mean he's Thrall, either.)

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The thing is, we're quickly coming up to the final "act" of WotLK (Icecrown) and we really haven't seen anything in the way of character development for Garrosh. He's still the guy in Warsong Hold who wants to charge in recklessly and needs his mistakes to be covertly corrected by Saurfang and his allies.

If Garrosh is going to mature into a character worthy of leading the Horde in Cataclysm, then something rather dramatic will need to happen to him during the Arthas raid.