Old spell:

Rejuvenation (Rank 15)
18% of Base Mana 40 yd range
Instant cast
Requires Tree of Life Form
Heals the target for 1690 over 15 sec.

Will the new spell do the same healing (1690 over 12 seconds) therefore increasing the HPS but decreasing the duration, or are you just nerfing the spell by 20% overall?

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Q u o t e:
Bug Fixes

Druids
Rejuvenation: Rank 15 of this spell was providing a 15-second duration. It has been correctly reduced to 12 seconds.

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//edit spell description from Thottbot - I don't think it requires ToL? WTF is that about.

I'm going to ASSUME that its the first - duration reduced, healing the same. So each tick will heal for more, just won't last as long. Will discourage rejuv/wg spam, which kinda sucks for some fights. Then again, maybe less druids will do the rejuv spam if they can't get as many up at once....

Lets think about it for a minute...


Do druids have the highest sustainable hps? Yes.

Do you need a buff to your hps at this time? Probably not.

After the poh/coh nerfs, druids took the place of priests as the most effective raid heals. Next time you're bored, go to the guild recruitment forums, you'll find nearly every top100 guild recruiting paladin/druid healers, and relatively few of any other class.

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Q u o t e:
Lets think about it for a minute...


Do druids have the highest sustainable hps? Yes.

Do you need a buff to your hps at this time? Probably not.

After the poh/coh nerfs, druids took the place of priests as the most effective raid heals. Next time you're bored, go to the guild recruitment forums, you'll find nearly every top100 guild recruiting paladin/druid healers, and relatively few of any other class.

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tl;dr - WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Q u o t e:


tl;dr - WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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You do an excellent job of making worthless posts on these forums.

6 ticks on 18 players at once =108 ticks total
5 tick on 15 players at once =75 ticks
This is a 30% HPS nerf on rejuv.

Big deal if you ask me.
now i am laughing :)))
Cheers druids !

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Q u o t e:
6 ticks on 18 players at once =108 ticks total
5 tick on 15 players at once =75 ticks
This is a 30% HPS nerf on rejuv.

Big deal if you ask me.
now i am laughing :)))
Cheers druids !

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The HPS of the spell remains the same, assuming they're just removing the last tick. The things that are affected by the change are the spell's HPM (same cost for one less tick) and the number of people on which Rejuv can be maintained (down from a theoretical max of 18 to 15).

The HPS has to increase if the duration drops but the healing stays the same. You would be reducing the denominator and not changing the numerator.

Basically, if the healing is unchanged, this is better for druids in groups of 10 and smaller, as the equivalent healing will be done faster. It probably sucks a little for 25 man.

Now, if the duration dropping also means that 20% of the healing is dropping off too... that's a bad day all around and benefits no one.

This is what a lot of people (you included) do not understand.
How many players at once rejuv can be maintained on was part of the issue.
The rejuv HPS issue is directly linked to how many ticks are happening raid wide.
This is an HPS nerf.
Druid HPS from rejuv is nerfed by 30% with 5 ticks instead of 6.

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Q u o t e:

The HPS of the spell remains the same, assuming they're just removing the last tick. The things that are affected by the change are the spell's HPM (same cost for one less tick) and the number of people on which Rejuv can be maintained (down from a theoretical max of 18 to 15).

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I am expecting the overall healing done to remain the same, and only the duration to change. I'm not expecting one tick less to have any actual impact on druid healing, as long as they didn't reduce the total amount healed by rejuv.

Only people who spent all their time blanketing a raid with rejuv will really feel the hurt from it. People who mixed in other spells with their rejuvs & wild growths will just have to refresh rejuv more often on the tank...

You seem to be asking for a modification similar to the renew glyph.
This is not a spell change but presented as a fix.
You are quite probably losing 1 full tick and the remaining ticks will not be increased at all.
So this is actually an HPS nerf raid wide AND an HPM nerf as you heal 5 ticks for 422 mana while you had 6 ticks before. You are literally losing 2000 points healed.
Don't be sad, you're just being brought back in line with the rest of healers HPS and HPM wise.
But I agree this is very brutal for a spell that could be 70% of all of your healing.
You'll adapt !

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Q u o t e:
The HPS has to increase if the duration drops but the healing stays the same. You would be reducing the denominator and not changing the numerator.

Basically, if the healing is unchanged, this is better for druids in groups of 10 and smaller, as the equivalent healing will be done faster. It probably sucks a little for 25 man.

Now, if the duration dropping also means that 20% of the healing is dropping off too... that's a bad day all around and benefits no one.

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No, see, I do understand.


Do the math.

If something does 10 widgets over 5 seconds, that's 2 widgets per second.

If it now does 10 widgets over 2 seconds, that's 5 widgets per second.

If the denominator gets shorter, no matter how few targets you can apply it to, on a per cast basis the HPS is increasing.

A druids overall HPS may decrease if she can't apply a spell as many times due to GCD, but that doesn't mean the individual spell's HPS is lower.

In theory I could apply 18 Rejuv's with a reduced GCD. That's great, but what about in a 5 man?

5 man dungeon - Spam rejuv on 5 targets

sec 0 cast 1
sec 1 cast 2
sec 2 cast 3
sec 3 - cast 1tick1 - cast 4
sec 4 - cast2 tick1 - cast 5
sec 5 - cast3 tick1
sec 6 - cast4 tick 1, cast1tick 2
sec 7 - cast5 tick 1, cast2tick 2
sec 8 - cast3 tick 2

Now, each tick can be either 2k or 2.5k. Which one yields higher HPS for the druid - the one that ends cast 1 at 12 sec (and a recast) giving 2.5k ticks, or the one where cast 1 ends at 15 sec but only ticked for 2k? Keep in mind you have no other targets you can cast it on.

Yes, it will cost more mana because the spells end sooner, but if the healing does not decrease and the # of seconds does decrease, this is higher HPS for all situations under a druid maintaining 15 rejuvs.

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Q u o t e:
No, see, I do understand.


Do the math.

If something does 10 widgets over 5 seconds, that's 2 widgets per second.

If it now does 10 widgets over 2 seconds, that's 5 widgets per second.

If the denominator gets shorter, no matter how few targets you can apply it to, on a per cast basis the HPS is increasing.

A druids overall HPS may decrease if she can't apply a spell as many times due to GCD, but that doesn't mean the individual spell's HPS is lower.

In theory I could apply 18 Rejuv's with a reduced GCD. That's great, but what about in a 5 man?

5 man dungeon - Spam rejuv on 5 targets

sec 0 cast 1
sec 1 cast 2
sec 2 cast 3
sec 3 - cast 1tick1 - cast 4
sec 4 - cast2 tick1 - cast 5
sec 5 - cast3 tick1
sec 6 - cast4 tick 1, cast1tick 2
sec 7 - cast5 tick 1, cast2tick 2
sec 8 - cast3 tick 2

Now, each tick can be either 2k or 2.5k. Which one yields higher HPS for the druid - the one that ends cast 1 at 12 sec (and a recast) giving 2.5k ticks, or the one where cast 1 ends at 15 sec but only ticked for 2k? Keep in mind you have no other targets you can cast it on.

Yes, it will cost more mana because the spells end sooner, but if the healing does not decrease and the # of seconds does decrease, this is higher HPS for all situations under a druid maintaining 15 rejuvs.

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Unless you're still only getting 2k a tick, you just have 1 fewer tick, which may be the case. Blizzard needs to explain exactly how this fix functions before people can decide how bad it will be for druids.

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Q u o t e:
This is what a lot of people (you included) do not understand.
How many players at once rejuv can be maintained on was part of the issue.
The rejuv HPS issue is directly linked to how many ticks are happening raid wide.
This is an HPS nerf.
Druid HPS from rejuv is nerfed by 30% with 5 ticks instead of 6.

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You and I are just approaching it from different angles. It is an HPS neutral change to the spell itself (again, assuming they just lop off the last tick and the remaining ticks don't become stronger), but an HPS negative change to a druid as a system. That's true. But your numbers aren't entirely accurate. Currently, a druid will see 18x6 =108 ticks from 18 seconds of Rejuv spamming. With this change, a druid will see 18x5=90 ticks from 18 seconds of Rejuv spamming, which is a 17% HPS nerf from performing the same action over the same time period (Rejuv mashing with a 1s GCD). You failed to normalize the time period in your comparison.

Edit: As the two guys above me posted, this could actually turn out to be a buff in most situations if the total healing done of the spell remains the same and the ticks become stronger to make up for the loss of the final tick.

Note that reducing the duration will very likely reduce the coefficient as well. So we'll have about ~+90 per tick (off a spell that can tick for around 2k) additional healing.

In contrast going from 18s duration to 15s duration (talented) means that you'll go from being able to 'roll' about 16 targets to around 13 targets, which is about a 20% nerf to effective HPS.

No, I'm saying it doesn't come into play until you are talking about 15+ rejuv targets.

I'm not disagreeing with you - but I'm pointing out that for 10 man and 5 man groups where you don't have targets 16, 17, and 18 to Rejuv, it won't matter. This is a hit to druids in 25 man content and above and a buff to druids in smaller groups, but only if the total healing for rank 15 does not go down.

Applying the healing over a shorter period would help me out.

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Q u o t e:
No, I'm saying it doesn't come into play until you are talking about 15+ rejuv targets.

I'm not disagreeing with you - but I'm pointing out that for 10 man and 5 man groups where you don't have targets 16, 17, and 18 to Rejuv, it won't matter. This is a hit to druids in 25 man content and above and a buff to druids in smaller groups, but only if the total healing for rank 15 does not go down.

Applying the healing over a shorter period would help me out.

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Actually, people in 25-mans who were doing more than just blanket their raid in rejuvs won't even be hit that much even with the change. Not everyone these days in ToC are neglecting all their other heal spells in favor of being rejuv-bots... and people who are nothing but rejuv bots really should be punished for not being flexible enough to adapt...

People shouldn't have 18 rejuvs rolling at the same time in a 25-man raid, except on maybe 1 or 2 key fights, because you should still be casting other things: Wild growth, Swiftmend, Nourish, regrowth/lifebloom on tanks... Putting some rejuvs around on the raid is fine, but that's a really bad role to have if all you do is mash one button mindlessly all day... I think I'd rather have the one-button-spammer strategy nerfed so that people learn how to use their other spells appropriately.

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Q u o t e:
Note that reducing the duration will very likely reduce the coefficient as well. So we'll have about ~+90 per tick (off a spell that can tick for around 2k) additional healing.

In contrast going from 18s duration to 15s duration (talented) means that you'll go from being able to 'roll' about 16 targets to around 13 targets, which is about a 20% nerf to effective HPS.

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Yeah a coefficient hit would suck. I hope that's not in the cards.

I'm not trying to say this is all rainbows and unicorns but I don't think its the end of the world and I think for most people to view it as a 30% nerf would be wrong. Most people (as in the majority of druid healers) are probably not healing 25 man groups. I know the only one I heal in is VoA.

I'm not convinced this will do much more than stretch my mana a bit more and force me to use a real mana pot instead of the endless mana pot I have. That's the impact to me personally - not the impact to all druids. I'm sure the sky must be falling for some of you.