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Q u o t e:
Lets just say I'll be pretty peeved if the Tier 10 set bonus makes rejuv last longer...

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That would only happen if the new Stormrage helm from Ony became part of the set.

http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=214

This is really big because beyond the HPS and the HPM reductions, druids will occupy a little less the raid healing terrain with spraying rejuv on 15 instead of 18.
This is leaving a little more space to other healing classes than what was happening in Ulduar.

And guys, this is a fix, not a nerf.
There is no reason that rank 15 had a different behaviour/mechanic with 5 ticks while all other ranks had only 4 ticks. It wasn't the same spell at rank 15, not at all.

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Q u o t e:
This is really big because beyond the HPS and the HPM reductions, druids will occupy a little less the raid healing terrain with spraying rejuv on 15 instead of 18.
This is leaving a little more space to other healing classes than what was happening in Ulduar.

And guys, this is a fix, not a nerf.
There is no reason that rank 15 had a different behaviour/mechanic with 5 ticks while all other ranks had only 4 ticks. It wasn't the same spell at rank 15, not at all.

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There actually was a reason for the 15 seconds. Its called renew. Druids, THE HoT class, had a hot that lasted less time than a priests. Druids complained. It changed. Now they're changing it back. If this had happened in 3.1, people would have QQ'd, but they might have gotten away with calling it a fix. They are beyond that at this point.

Now, as for whether this will hugely hurt druids, that remains to be seen. But its a nerf. Don't try to pretend it isn't. We can hear you snickering through your keyboard.

That would stand only if all ranks were affected.
It wasn;t the case OR the bug is then that all ranks should say 15s.
Pick one lol !

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Q u o t e:


There actually was a reason for the 15 seconds. Its called renew. Druids, THE HoT class, had a hot that lasted less time than a priests. Druids complained. It changed. Now they're changing it back. If this had happened in 3.1, people would have QQ'd, but they might have gotten away with calling it a fix. They are beyond that at this point.

Now, as for whether this will hugely hurt druids, that remains to be seen. But its a nerf. Don't try to pretend it isn't. We can hear you snickering through your keyboard.

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Q u o t e:

Its a nerf, period. When something works a certain way for an entire expansion and matches its tooltip correctly, that is not a bug, changing that is called a nerf.

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What, it can't be both?

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Q u o t e:
This is really big because beyond the HPS and the HPM reductions, druids will occupy a little less the raid healing terrain with spraying rejuv on 15 instead of 18.
This is leaving a little more space to other healing classes than what was happening in Ulduar.

And guys, this is a fix, not a nerf.
There is no reason that rank 15 had a different behaviour/mechanic with 5 ticks while all other ranks had only 4 ticks. It wasn't the same spell at rank 15, not at all.

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No, something sounds wrong here.

Rank 14 and Rank 15 are going to do almost equivalent healing. Someone please test this - I think the bug has not been 100% addressed yet.

Does it make sense one spell behave a certain way for lower ranks and another for the highest rank ? (power and mana cost aside).
But I agree a part of the fault was also that they did let it stand in plain light in the tooltip for so long, but it doesn't make it legitimate and right.
“It has been wrong that way for so long, lets keep it then!”

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Q u o t e:

Its a nerf, period. When something works a certain way for an entire expansion and matches its tooltip correctly, that is not a bug, changing that is called a nerf.

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Q u o t e:


No, something sounds wrong here.

Rank 14 and Rank 15 are going to do almost equivalent healing. Someone please test this - I think the bug has not been 100% addressed yet.

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They won't do equivalent healing. Unless 14 was ticking for the same amount as 15, just one time less before this, 15 still ticks for more. I've posted the numbers. It ticks for 1 more point of healing than on live, just one less time. Rank 14 ticks the same number of times now, and should be doing so for lower values. Once the PvE server is back up I'll test it though.

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Q u o t e:
Not when the tooltip reflects the "bug" and the fix does not.

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Tooltips are sometimes part of the bug. Lots of past examples of this, where they have to nerf a spell and tooltip (which match) because a only a certain rank was adjusted and is out of line with the others. And of course, lots of examples of them leaving issues like this alone until they feel the class in question needs a nerf, and then they pull this maneuver.

OK, for those that want to know:

Rank 14 rejuv (no procs, no buffs, no idol, in dal, in tree, casting on myself) ticks for 1881. That's a difference of 58 per tick vs rank 15. Seems not quite right to me....

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Q u o t e:
OK, for those that want to know:

Rank 14 rejuv (no procs, no buffs, no idol, in dal, in tree, casting on myself) ticks for 1881. That's a difference of 58 per tick vs rank 15. Seems not quite right to me....

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The longer duration of r15 probably didn't get a coefficient increase? So you're getting the same +healing spread out over more ticks?

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Q u o t e:


No, something sounds wrong here.

Rank 14 and Rank 15 are going to do almost equivalent healing. Someone please test this - I think the bug has not been 100% addressed yet.

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I still don't have the PTR up yet but this can't be right.

Rank 14 - Rank 15 is only 58 per tick different for me. The extra healing you get from going to Rank 15 from 14 is in the extra tick. This is not a bug. Instead of making it heal for more per tick they chose to extend it by one tick but leave the healing amount roughly the same.

Now, they've taken off that tick - and not increased the amount that it heals for. So, at this point - Rank 14 is 1921 per tick and Rank 15 is 1978 per tick for me. Rank 13 is 1500, Rank 12 is 1000ish. There is no way that it is intended that rank 14-15 be 50 healing/tick, or roughly 17 hps in my resto gear.

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Q u o t e:
Does it make sense one spell behave a certain way for lower ranks and another for the highest rank ? (power and mana cost aside).
But I agree a part of the fault was also that they did let it stand in plain light in the tooltip for so long, but it doesn't make it legitimate and right.
“It has been wrong that way for so long, lets keep it then!”

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It makes sense when it is explicitly designed that way. There were posts on the WotLK Beta forums which explicitly addressed this posted by Blizzard employees. It was an intentional change, not a bug, designed to allow Resto Druids to have more time to cast other spells between Rejuv refreshes. The same reason they wanted to extend the duration of Lifebloom and Regrowth. They addressed it partially in talents, and partially in glyphs, and partially in an alteration of the level 80 version of the spell. This locks Druids into casting Rejuv more, not less, and having less time to use supplementary healing spells. It will reduce druid healing numbers in 25-man raids for a few specific fights, but it is a direct reversion of an intentional change.

From the perspective of Cataclysm and the removal of spell ranks, this was likely to happen eventually. It's just odd they chose to try it mid-expansion instead of waiting until the main overhaul where it would make sense in the grand scheme. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new glyph for Rejuv which adds this tick back (possibly with reduced total healing done)

Odes -- It is easily possible for something to be both nerf and bug fix. This is not one of those times.

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Q u o t e:
Tooltips are sometimes part of the bug. Lots of past examples of this, where they have to nerf a spell and tooltip (which match) because a only a certain rank was adjusted and is out of line with the others. And of course, lots of examples of them leaving issues like this alone until they feel the class in question needs a nerf, and then they pull this maneuver.

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For example, in patch 3.3 they are changing flamestrike ranks to have the same cast time. Right now, some ranks have a longer cast time and the tooltip reflects the longer cast time. Surely no one thinks this is an intentional mechanic for middle ranks of the spell. This update for flamestrike is obviously a bug fix. We'd also call the change a buff. If it were (purely by chance) in the other direction, it would be a nerf--and a bug fix, at the same time.

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Q u o t e:


I still don't have the PTR up yet but this can't be right.

Rank 14 - Rank 15 is only 58 per tick different for me. The extra healing you get from going to Rank 15 from 14 is in the extra tick. This is not a bug. Instead of making it heal for more per tick they chose to extend it by one tick but leave the healing amount roughly the same.

Now, they've taken off that tick - and not increased the amount that it heals for. So, at this point - Rank 14 is 1921 per tick and Rank 15 is 1978 per tick for me. Rank 13 is 1500, Rank 12 is 1000ish. There is no way that it is intended that rank 14-15 be 50 healing/tick, or roughly 17 hps in my resto gear.

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Thats about what I found on the PTR. 1881 per tick on rank 14, 1939 per tick on rank 15. Not NEARLY enough difference.

So we can assume you're just clipping off the last tick and not altering the strength of the rest of the ticks then? Thanks for any clarification.