It may have already been said, and I know it wont be true, but i'd laugh if Terenas Menethil II was Arthas' most powerful death knight.

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Q u o t e:
No one seems to understand. If the game weren't so retardedly easy, then the player base would get better at it as a whole, and then they could make content harder. You don't have to raid for 4 hours a night for 5 nights a week to see the content if you would just play better as a group. You could just as easily play for an hour or two for two or three nights and get to see just as much content if everyone weren't so terrible. Then you could get rid of the free loot bosses and just make content feel like you are doing something,

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I understand your point perfectly. Here's mine. The game isn't retardedly easy for everyone. Some servers have a large pull of talent and players to be able to raid at the level you're asking. Some don't. Kael'thas is a medium population PVE server. No one has come close to Anub-arak yet. I don't think Ulduar is complete on that server yet for Hard mode. You're asking to make things like Ulduar hard mode the baseline.

I would contend that if you did that, that server would die off. Their top guild can't play well enough as a group to see the content and they really have no guilds as contenders to fight for the server's best. If they can't do it, the remainder of the server definitely cannot. If Nax had been Ulduar hard mode difficulty to start, the whole server would have gone an entire expansion without a significant content update. That's hardly fair to the majority of paying subscribers.

Large amounts of people have progression paths now. Your advantage as a vetern/elite player is that yours is significantly faster. Asking for progression to be exclusive to a small % of guilds is a huge step backwards.

Edit:
And let me add. (At hopefully no offense to you), that I really don't want to be grouped with a player as serious minded as yourself about the content. Your attitude and approach are entirely different than my own. Yours is certainly not wrong, but its certainly not fun for me either. I did that back in Vanilla and found myself anxiety ridden on raid nights. Now its very much something to look forward to a night of fun in with friends.

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Q u o t e:


I understand your point perfectly. Here's mine. The game isn't retardedly easy for everyone. Some servers have a large pull of talent and players to be able to raid at the level you're asking. Some don't. Kael'thas is a medium population PVE server. No one has come close to Anub-arak yet. I don't think Ulduar is complete on that server yet for Hard mode. You're asking to make things like Ulduar hard mode the baseline.

I would contend that if you did that, that server would die off. Their top guild can't play well enough as a group to see the content and they really have no guilds as contenders to fight for the server's best. If they can't do it, the remainder of the server definitely cannot. If Nax had been Ulduar hard mode difficulty to start, the whole server would have gone an entire expansion without a significant content update. That's hardly fair to the majority of paying subscribers.

Large amounts of people have progression paths now. Your advantage as a vetern/elite player is that yours is significantly faster. Asking for progression to be exclusive to a small % of guilds is a huge step backwards.

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I like this guy.

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Q u o t e:


I understand your point perfectly. Here's mine. The game isn't retardedly easy for everyone. Some servers have a large pull of talent and players to be able to raid at the level you're asking. Some don't. Kael'thas is a medium population PVE server. No one has come close to Anub-arak yet. I don't think Ulduar is complete on that server yet for Hard mode. You're asking to make things like Ulduar hard mode the baseline.

I would contend that if you did that, that server would die off. Their top guild can't play well enough as a group to see the content and they really have no guilds as contenders to fight for the server's best. If they can't do it, the remainder of the server definitely cannot. If Nax had been Ulduar hard mode difficulty to start, the whole server would have gone an entire expansion without a significant content update. That's hardly fair to the majority of paying subscribers.

Large amounts of people have progression paths now. Your advantage as a vetern/elite player is that yours is significantly faster. Asking for progression to be exclusive to a small % of guilds is a huge step backwards.

Edit:
And let me add. (At hopefully no offense to you), that I really don't want to be grouped with a player as serious minded as yourself about the content. Your attitude and approach are entirely different than my own. Yours is certainly not wrong, but its certainly not fun for me either. I did that back in Vanilla and found myself anxiety ridden on raid nights. Now its very much something to look forward to a night of fun in with friends.

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Good post.

Maybe I'm just living in my own world where I'm thinking of ways to make raiding more fun =/. I know it will never happen. I just wish it would go back to when if you had gear, it meant something, other than now where if you aren't in full epics the day you hit 80 something is wrong with you.

edit
I also like how almost every post going against my argument is from someone that has not done any hard modes in even 10 man ulduar, let alone anything harder. Just proving my point that no people that acutally do the hard content like how it is now.

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Q u o t e:


You mean 3 weeks. 3.3 will come out around Oct. 31, 2009. Then we will raid it for 3 months. Then we will have Cat no later than February.

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I'd love to see a link of where you read this.

EDIT:

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Q u o t e:
Maybe I'm just living in my own world where I'm thinking of ways to make raiding more fun =/. I know it will never happen. I just wish it would go back to when if you had gear, it meant something, other than now where if you aren't in full epics the day you hit 80 something is wrong with you.

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As I've sad before, I agree with you on this. I wish it was harder to get geared, and that it meant more when you were geared.

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Q u o t e:
Maybe I'm just living in my own world where I'm thinking of ways to make raiding more fun =/. I know it will never happen. I just wish it would go back to when if you had gear, it meant something, other than now where if you aren't in full epics the day you hit 80 something is wrong with you.

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This is fine, very acceptable in terms of wants, and a decent post. You just sounded like an arrogant jerk in your original post.

cool, dont really like the forced pvp to reach the upper icecrown citdal.

so if you lose, you don't get to do it?

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Q u o t e:
cool, dont really like the forced pvp to reach the upper icecrown citdal.

so if you lose, you don't get to do it?

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I don't think it's PvP. You just fight opposite-faction NPCs.

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Q u o t e:
Maybe I'm just living in my own world where I'm thinking of ways to make raiding more fun =/. I know it will never happen. I just wish it would go back to when if you had gear, it meant something, other than now where if you aren't in full epics the day you hit 80 something is wrong with you.

edit
I also like how almost every post going against my argument is from someone that has not done any hard modes in even 10 man ulduar, let alone anything harder. Just proving my point that no people that acutally do the hard content like how it is now.

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Gear never meant anything more than what you got out of it. I don't oogle other people's gear and covet it. I don't fawn over players that have better gear than myself. Gear is simply a means to an end, the end being completing the content.

Simply put, there are more people like me than there are people like you. If you want the content to be incredibly difficult, why don't you just do Hard Modes from the start? Turn off DBM, don't read any strats, and go from there. This content's a lot more challenging if you don't know what to expect.

It's just impossible to not know what to expect sadly. I think what makes it worse, is that most bosses are so forgiving if you mess up. If someone stands in fire now, they die and you kill the boss anyway. It used to be if you stood in something, you got it chained to other people, who would also die leading to a wipe. Twin eredars was so fun. So was Mu'ru for that matter, and Kil Jaeden. WTB more Sunwell please.

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Q u o t e:
It's just impossible to not know what to expect sadly. I think what makes it worse, is that most bosses are so forgiving if you mess up. If someone stands in fire now, they die and you kill the boss anyway. It used to be if you stood in something, you got it chained to other people, who would also die leading to a wipe. Twin eredars was so fun. So was Mu'ru for that matter, and Kil Jaeden. WTB more Sunwell please.

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How about Algalon 25, or Heroic Anub'arak?

You know, the bosses that your guild can't beat.

Yes, but what you're not realizing is that what is fun for you may not be fun for other people. Fun is not universal and Blizzard needs to expand to encompass as many people as possible. Sunwell may have been fun for you, but it was not fun for many people because its requirements were so heavy that few ever got to see it.

People get challenge from different ways. Some people like a brick wall that they have to overcome. Some people like mechanics that require thought, but don't like to slam their head against a wall. Others may not like even that, but I can safely assume that they're in a minority, and there is content for that as well. Those that like the brick wall receive the best gear for overcoming it. That's how the system works, and I think it works quite well.

You're proposing that everyone have to deal with this brick wall. This is not good for the game and while it would provide entertainment for a few people, it would prevent far more from having that fun.

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Q u o t e:
Oh and despite my negativity, the instance sounds awesome. I just don't want to have to do it four times a week in order to help my guild.

edit



Clearing the hard mode version of the instance* The only one that should have existed in the first place.

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Your acheivements betray your call for more elitist raids. Face it. Blizzard is finally doing the right thing. Allowing groups that have morons in them see content, while still providing an avenue for challenge to people who wish to be challenged.

That said, it's pretty obvious that Alliance will fight Bolvar, who will probably be like Vael. While Horde fights Saurfang jr. who will be bantering with his father the whole time.

Ooooh, this is gonna be good~

No Sylvanas in the actual raid? Disappointing.

please don't tell me thats KT in that picture >.>

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Q u o t e:


You are correction, at least with how we currently plan to do it (things can still change!) - the plan is for 2 raid ID lockouts, not 4.

Sorry for any confusion on this.

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Oh thank you so much, you just made my day.

The room with the Lich reminds me of Shade of Akamas room.