World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity

Deylina

Dalaran

20. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/16/2009 10:33:12 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

As far as I'm aware, #3 is most likely to be the cause of you not obtaining the achievement. To quote Vaey from Refuge "We all used gear below itemlvl 245 because we thought that blizz will check itemlvls instead of drop loaction."

Regardless of the reasoning the tool tip should be clarified, or some way of checking if your gear is valid for the achievement.

Damn, to do htoc 10 man with no wipes in 232 and less ilvl gear on the second weak is pretty nuts.

Daelo

Blizzard Poster

21. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 10:58:02 AM PDT

Here's the breakdown.

You can use:
• Any item below item level 245.
• The item level 245 set pieces that drop from 25-player Trial of the Crusader but also appear in the 10-player Tribute Chest.
• Any gear that drops in 10-player Trial of the Crusader or Trial of the Grand Crusader, including item level 245 Trial of the Grand Crusader drops and item level 258 cloaks from the 10-player Tribute Chest
• Any item level 245 items purchased with Badges of Triumph.
• Any item level 245 Bind on Equip item, including crafted pieces.

You cannot use:
• Any item level 245 item not included above (primarily Bind on Pickup drops from 25-player Trial of the Crusader, but also notably Val’anyr).
• Any item over item level 245 except for the 10-player Tribute cloak.
• Any higher item level loot introduced in future patches (25 player Onyxia 245s, Icecrown loot in the future, etc.)

[ Post edited by Daelo ]

Daelo
Lead Encounter Designer

Pufftrees

< Teh Slax >

Ursin

22. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:01:48 AM PDT

ty for clearing that up

USwest StarCraft: Pufftreeblunted
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Jmon

Hakkar

23. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:04:15 AM PDT

Ah, sweet, sweet clarification. Now how about that NPC check idea =D

Florona

< Talisman >

Icecrown

24. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:20:09 AM PDT

The idea behind these ilevel achievements is good because it adds some element of requiring skill versus simply out-gearing the encounters. However, in practice they are really dumb because it means people have to bank old gear and keep a set with these specific requirements. We've yet to do the Algalon one just because people forget about it and end up selling/disenchanting their old weapons and gear. Its a real chore to get people set up to do them. I'd like to stop seeing these ilevel achievements - they're bad.

Audere

< Outlandish >

Velen

25. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:20:42 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Here's the breakdown.

You can use:
• Any item below item level 245.
• The item level 245 set pieces that drop from 25-player Trial of the Crusader but also appear in the 10-player Tribute Chest.
• Any gear that drops in 10-player Trial of the Crusader or Trial of the Grand Crusader, including item level 245 Trial of the Grand Crusader drops and item level 258 cloaks from the 10-player Tribute Chest
• Any item level 245 Bind on Equip item, including crafted pieces.

You cannot use:
• Any item level 245 item not included above (primarily Bind on Pickup drops from 25-player Trial of the Crusader, but also notably Val’anyr).
• Any item over item level 245 except for the 10-player Tribute cloak.
• Any higher item level loot introduced in future patches (25 player Onyxia 245s, Icecrown loot in the future, etc.)

For the sake of clarity, Daelo, does this mean that the ilevel 245 Badge of Triumph gear is definitely not permitted because it fits into the first bullet in the cannot slot?

Leibowitz

< Impervious >

Stormreaver

26. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:24:27 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
The idea behind these ilevel achievements is good because it adds some element of requiring skill versus simply out-gearing the encounters. However, in practice they are really dumb because it means people have to bank old gear and keep a set with these specific requirements. We've yet to do the Algalon one just because people forget about it and end up selling/disenchanting their old weapons and gear. Its a real chore to get people set up to do them. I'd like to stop seeing these ilevel achievements - they're bad.

No, they put these achievements in with the aim to give 10-man guilds something to focus on. I imagine they couldn't care less if 25-man raiders are inconvenienced trying to do this by keeping a set of gear around that fits the criteria.

Suzushiro

Mal'Ganis

27. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:27:42 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
The idea behind these ilevel achievements is good because it adds some element of requiring skill versus simply out-gearing the encounters. However, in practice they are really dumb because it means people have to bank old gear and keep a set with these specific requirements. We've yet to do the Algalon one just because people forget about it and end up selling/disenchanting their old weapons and gear. Its a real chore to get people set up to do them. I'd like to stop seeing these ilevel achievements - they're bad.

If you have to worry about hanging on to old gear in order to do these achievements, they're not for you. They're not supposed to be an extra level of e-peen for 25-man raiders, they're for the 10-only raiders as a way of saying "hey, we did this hard 10-man boss without trivializing it with 25-man loot," since the harder 10-man achievements are mostly done by people in 25-man gear.

(Thinking about it, it also protects Blizz from a Sarth3D-like scenario where everyone believes that the 10 is impossible without 25 gear when it's really just that the only people good enough to do the 10 in 10 gear are the hardcore raiders who have full BiS 25 gear- they basically give raiders incentive to prove the whiners wrong.)

"These forums are as much an indicator of the players' happiness as a hospital is an indicator of public health." -Feoria of Shadowmoon
AKA Suzushiro of Winterhoof

Treefiddy

< Perfect Eulogy >

Mug'thol

28. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:28:20 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

No, they put these achievements in with the aim to give 10-man guilds something to focus on. I imagine they couldn't care less if 25-man raiders are inconvenienced trying to do this by keeping a set of gear around that fits the criteria.

It's cumbersome for the 10 man raiders too. If you take Daelo's explanation to the letter, you can't use the ilvl 245 badge gear either, despite the fact that the badges you buy it with can exclusively come from the 10 man instance.

EDIT: If what Suzuhiro said below is correct, then disregard this or w/e, but it still looks like an unaccounted for grey-area to me.

[ Post edited by Treefiddy ]

Suzushiro

Mal'Ganis

29. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:29:30 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
For the sake of clarity, Daelo, does this mean that the ilevel 245 Badge of Triumph gear is definitely not permitted because it fits into the first bullet in the cannot slot?

Since Triumph emblems drop in ToC10 the gear you buy with them certainly qualifies under the third "can" bullet.

"These forums are as much an indicator of the players' happiness as a hospital is an indicator of public health." -Feoria of Shadowmoon
AKA Suzushiro of Winterhoof

Audere

< Outlandish >

Velen

30. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:32:04 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Since Triumph emblems drop in ToC10 the gear you buy with them certainly qualifies under the third "can" bullet.

That bullet explicitly states that it's gear that drops *in* ToC10, and makes no reference to badges, so the door seems open to me. Just hoping to make sure before I swap off my badge ring for something else.

Aixelsyd

< Reckless Ascension >

Garithos

31. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:35:26 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

That bullet explicitly states that it's gear that drops *in* ToC10, and makes no reference to badges, so the door seems open to me. Just hoping to make sure before I swap off my badge ring for something else.

It also doesn't say if you can use the items purchased with trophies, which you can also get out of the 10man tribute chest.

Pinch

< Premonition >

Sen'jin

32. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:36:14 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

It also doesn't say if you can use the items purchased with trophies, which you can also get out of the 10man tribute chest.

yes it does

Q u o t e:
i will hit you so hard that you will die

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Jmon

Hakkar

33. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:37:00 AM PDT

I'd have to believe they're allowed.

Daelo

Blizzard Poster

34. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:39:16 AM PDT

Yes, you can use Triumph badge vendor loot. I'll add a further note to the post above to reflect this.

Daelo
Lead Encounter Designer

Audere

< Outlandish >

Velen

35. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 11:41:23 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Yes, you can use Triumph badge vendor loot. I'll add a further note to the post above to reflect this.

Thanks for the clarifications, they're much appreciated.

Skysec

< Negative Bro >

Archimonde

36. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 12:27:35 PM PDT

Can you please put in an npc that you can use to check with before we start the encounter? It's going to be a giant pita for a raid leader to manually check each of their raiders for this stuff. The herald requirement isn't as bad because it was just ilvl, but for this one you actually have to remember or look up where the item drops.

Obviously the code that checks this is already in place, is it too much to ask for for players to be able to see it before they start the trials?

Edit: Also what about relentless/pvp pieces?

[ Post edited by Skysec ]

Palaman

< The Embassy >

Garona

37. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 01:36:40 PM PDT

So what you're saying is I can't use gear that I got during progression to do progression encounters? AKA the very reason I'm acquiring gear in the first place? Don't you generally think that's bad design?

Wookiara

< Defiant >

Ursin

38. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 01:47:26 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Edit: Also what about relentless/pvp pieces?

Given that Relentless gear is all 245+ gear that doesn't drop from ToGC10, isn't purchased with tokens from ToGC10, and isn't crafted from materials available for emblems from ToGC10 and that

Q u o t e:

You cannot use:
• Any item level 245 item not included above (primarily Bind on Pickup drops from 25-player Trial of the Crusader, but also notably Val’anyr).
• Any item over item level 245 except for the 10-player Tribute cloak.
• Any higher item level loot introduced in future patches (25 player Onyxia 245s, Icecrown loot in the future, etc.)

I'd say it's pretty obvious that, no, Relentless PvP gear is not allowed.

Edit:

Q u o t e:
So what you're saying is I can't use gear that I got during progression to do progression encounters? AKA the very reason I'm acquiring gear in the first place? Don't you generally think that's bad design?

No. If this particular achievement limits your gear selection, then it's not considered a progression achievement at all for you - you need to start looking under the "Call of the Crusade (25 Player Raid)" tab for progression stuff. If, however, you *are* the intended audience for this achievement, then you don't really have to worry about it anyway - because you're not a 25-man raider.

[ Post edited by Wookiara ]

Skarn

< The Clique >

Norgannon

39. Re: A Tribute to Dedicated Insanity 09/17/2009 01:51:25 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
So what you're saying is I can't use gear that I got during progression to do progression encounters? AKA the very reason I'm acquiring gear in the first place? Don't you generally think that's bad design?

First, you need to recognize that an achievement like this is designed for 10-man ONLY guilds. These are guilds that do not raid 25-man and are only focused on doing 10-man content. It is NOT designed for anyone who runs 25-man raids.

As such, this achievement is NOT progression for a 25-man group. It is an achievement for 10-man group progression. If you ONLY run 10-mans and NEVER do a 25-man then you will NEVER have the issue of "is my gear level too high?"

The design is fine.

"Amazing. You have nothing to do now that people that aren't you have cleared Ulduar. " - Eyonix

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