Innervate: Restores 7866 mana at level 80 to any player with a mana pool.

I will start of saying that changing this from a Spirit based ability and making it more useful for Non spirit classes like Paladins and Shamans was great. This is what I am looking at:

Innervate gives a static amount of mana. In 226 average gear, a non Intellect stacking healer has around 22-25k mana. 7866 is about than 33% of their mana pool.
As gear progresses by obtaining higher iLvLs, ones mana pool becomes larger, making mana restore abilities like D.Plea, S.Fiend, Hymn of Hope, and Mana Tide restore more mana, as Innervate will always restore 7866 mana.

I think the amount of mana Innervate restores is lackluster (when comparing to other similar spells) and could be changed/adjusted. I am not saying make it return 5000 more mana, as in PvP that would be overpowered. I am suggesting that you may change this to a % of mana, like 50% or so.

50% may be too much, but the exact numbers are not for me to decide :). I think changing the mechanic of innervate this way isn't exactly a huge buff to us, as it is more to other classes like Holy Paladins. 4 Innervates in our raid barely bring the pally from OOM to full. NOT complaining, just suggesting a change of the mechanic.

I know it would be a nerf to Feral Druids (which may have been a major point in the original design change), but 1/2 their mana pool would be enough to heal up and use spells they need after a heavy encounter while soloing.

This is the general vibe of healers that I talk to in game and through forums. I would just like to hear your thoughts on such a change.

I agree... I think it should be % based. Seems like tha twould scale better, and kind of keep it floating about the amount developers intend it to restore.

Maybe they will make it scale in the next expansion... not sure.

RESTODRUIDS OP OP OP

But seriously, not a bad view. It definetly could use a scaling feature of some sort.

Since it is based off our base mana, it only scales through leveling.

dont nerf feral because u feel like its not good enough. And hint if it scaled off of gear say mana. Then everyone would use a swap macro to get an int weapon right beefore the innervate. This is exactly what they wanted to get awat from. Also all resto and balance druids would stack int even more. Personally i could see some of them dropping living spirit and picking up the balance talent that gives sp for intellect.

Innervate is balanced around pvp. They don't want it to scale in raids, because we have too much mana already. Get in the shaman group and eat a mana tide, then innervate the holy pally (who also got tide) like a good druid.

I'm actually surprised they haven't made mana tide: base mana for party, % of total for caster. Currently shaman regen is not based on total int except for replenishment/mana tide. While spirit regen is based on it, as is divine plea.

Sure, it can scale off max mana, but then all healing done by the target is reduced by 50% for the duration.

33% mana is a very generous number at this level of gear.


It will probably be a problem in Cataclysm and maybe Icecrown, but right now it is pretty damn solid.

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Q u o t e:
Glyph of Innervate could also cause Innervate to always restore at least 25% of the target's mana, if that amount is greater than the base amount restored.

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Or the glyph could increase the mana returned by 10 or 15% of the target's mana pool.

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Q u o t e:


Or the glyph could increase the mana returned by 10 or 15% of the target's mana pool.

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i like this idea.

I think i remember reading something when they originally made this change.. People were complaining that it wouldn't scale.. The 'blues' agreed, and said something to the effect that it was being looked at how they could make it scale without making OP.. However, it was also stated, that it was fine for now, and not to expect any change until at least IC.. maybe later..

Don't hold me to this, but I'm pretty sure I remember something being said about it anyways..


I do agree that with the current jumps in ilvl , by the time IC comes around, even druids will be up close, if not into, the 30K buffed ranged.. which will make Innervate more lackluster..

I do like the 3 minute change though... Plus its great being able to give it to say a pally tank, or a mage in a heroic so that we can keep pulling without having to sit down and drink...=)

Innervate is envied so much by other classes that there'd be no end to the QQ if it were buffed. I dont' have mana issues in general so I've never thought about whether I care about the amount of mana it returns.

Not to derail the thread, but you made me realize something: When cataclysm happens and spirit is purely a healer stat, I hope they revert innervate so that its effectiveness is based on spirit again. Right now, when some mage asks for my innervate I want to stab him repeatedly.

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Q u o t e:
You should be happy with your innervate doesent jump around the room doing nothing until it dies

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lol'd so hard.

im ignorant, whats the current glyph of innervate do?

its always going to be a hard to balance ability because its either OP in pvp and gimpy in PvE or vice versa depending on the way it restores mana.

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Q u o t e:
Innervate: Restores 7866 mana at level 80 to any player with a mana pool.

I will start of saying that changing this from a Spirit based ability and making it more useful for Non spirit classes like Paladins and Shamans was great. This is what I am looking at:

Innervate gives a static amount of mana. In 226 average gear, a non Intellect stacking healer has around 22-25k mana. 7866 is about than 33% of their mana pool.
As gear progresses by obtaining higher iLvLs, ones mana pool becomes larger, making mana restore abilities like D.Plea, S.Fiend, Hymn of Hope, and Mana Tide restore more mana, as Innervate will always restore 7866 mana.

I think the amount of mana Innervate restores is lackluster (when comparing to other similar spells) and could be changed/adjusted. I am not saying make it return 5000 more mana, as in PvP that would be overpowered. I am suggesting that you may change this to a % of mana, like 50% or so.

50% may be too much, but the exact numbers are not for me to decide :). I think changing the mechanic of innervate this way isn't exactly a huge buff to us, as it is more to other classes like Holy Paladins. 4 Innervates in our raid barely bring the pally from OOM to full. NOT complaining, just suggesting a change of the mechanic.

I know it would be a nerf to Feral Druids (which may have been a major point in the original design change), but 1/2 their mana pool would be enough to heal up and use spells they need after a heavy encounter while soloing.

This is the general vibe of healers that I talk to in game and through forums. I would just like to hear your thoughts on such a change.

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I think that until spell costs scale, we can't have all mana regen and returns scaling as well. That's what is breaking the healer's mana bar right now and why the whole mana game itself is broken.

Innervate is fine. It restores plenty of mana, and the CD is short enough for you to use it twice on encounters that are long/intense enough for you to blow through a mana bar plus some. If it was still a 6min CD, then yes, it would be terrible.

However, people suggesting that if it were based on total mana pool people would start stacking int are wrong. Druids have enough regen without innervate that more often than not, we don't use it on ourselves anyway. That change would only really help in cases where we were casting innervate on other healers (like pallys, or some of those resto shaman I see running around with 30k mana....wtf by the way???)

Innervate is fine if you remember to use it before you are OOM. If you're waiting that long, its your own fault for not learning how to use the new mechanic correctly.

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Q u o t e:
Also all resto and balance druids would stack int even more.

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Resto druids don't stack int. Sp/Int gems for yellow sockets is about the extent of their "int stacking." Boomkins have no real problems with mana in raids.

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Q u o t e:
Innervate is fine if you remember to use it before you are OOM. If you're waiting that long, its your own fault for not learning how to use the new mechanic correctly.

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^ This. If you're on a fight where you know you're going to be having mana problems, you should hit your first innervate between 60-70%. Waiting till you're oom (or even 30% with x-perl warning or something) is a terribly inefficient way to use it.