My response to Kalgan from a now closed topic:
________

---

Q u o t e:
There are several reasons (these are the highlights) not to allow players to solo-queue for rated battlegrounds.

1. When players have no commitment to any other members of their team, they're much more likely to try to game the system for minimal effort (afk'ing, or near afk-ing). If they're required to form a group in advance, it implies there is a previously agreed-upon power structure in the group (somebody is the leader, and can kick players that need to be kicked).

---

One of the reasons I was looking forward to rated BGs was because, as a soloist, I want to be able to get gear on par with the game's best without adhering to an ideology that "bigger group = better." I had no intention of AFKing in these rated BGs. I had every intention of being a team player. But now I'm told that, once again, because I don't care to socialize in WoW (as opposed to, say, RL), I'm second-class. And please don't tell me that getting gear less than the game's best isn't second-class; it's the only way to buff my stats at max level.

Why is there no solution for players AFKing? Why do many other MMOs implement systems where, in their versions of Battlegrounds, idle players are not rewarded and the fastest path to progression is to participate? I've observed a disturbing trend in Blizzard's design philosophies, one that sees players penalized for attempting to use the system to their advantage (i.e., playing the game), and one that Blizzard shuts down either with "soft" ToS clauses or in-game limits that act in lieu of real fixes to problems.

---

Q u o t e:
2. If players can queue for rated battlegrounds as either solo or as a group (and any mix thereof), it becomes far more difficult to matchmake teams appropriately, or determine how difficult of a win a win was, or how significant a failure on the part of the losing players a loss was.

---

This is BS. Yeah, I know I probably shouldn't be calling Kalgan's claims about his game BS, but this is BS. Regardless of how those people get into the BG, matchmaking teams and determining the validity of results is still reliant on all the people in the BG. To claim that the process of filling the BG itself has an impact on those metrics is, at best, absurd.

---

Q u o t e:
3. The endgame structure we have for WoW rewards for organizational effort (this is the primary reason that 25-person raids are rewarded more highly than 10-person raids). There is no organizational effort in solo-queue'ing for battlegrounds, yet the ilevel of the rewards are on par with 25-person raiding.

---

This ideology is flawed. It may be WoW policy, but it doesn't adhere to reason. And here's why:

If the organizational effort is what is primarily rewarded, then the rewards should, reasonably, only apply to activities that require that effort. This is NOT the case in WoW, as every reward is individually rewarding. And I'm not sure what you believe on this matter, but the individual contribution made to a 40-man raid is not proven to be inherently "harder" than the one made to a 25-man raid, or a 10-man raid, or a 5-man group, or even solo.

The rewards from a 25-man raid benefit a player in 25-man raids and every bit of PvE content requiring less people, all the way down to solo content. But the rewards from supposedly "lesser" content doesn't apply as well to its own content as 25-man raid gear does. You can use that superior gear in 10-man raids, or in 5-man heroics, or solo daily questing. The same applies to Arena gear being used in BGs, and now rated BGs (which cannot be queued up for solo) are the best path to progress to gear for regular BGs.

This will fall on deaf ears, I realize. There will be no reply, other than deletion or forum banishment. I pine for the day an MMO comes out where designers realize that me, the soloist, possessing Breastplate of Infinite Awesome +1 doesn't make any other instance of Breastplate of Infinite Awesome +1 any less "special."

It is not a free ride to high iLvL epics, you still need to work for it however now blizz has provided you an alternate method. If you do not like it then tough luck, there is a reason WoW is an MMO and not a third person adventure game.

---

Q u o t e:
It is not a free ride to high iLvL epics, you still need to work for it however now blizz has provided you an alternate method. If you do not like it then tough luck, there is a reason WoW is an MMO and not a third person adventure game.

---

Your absolutely right my brother I'm with you!

Just one problem click this characters avatar and get back to me about free ride to high lvl epics....

Erasing what you did to a successful expansion just to please "The Company" and 1% of the population doesn't exactly look good to the other 99%.

I agree 100% with the OP on this.

If WoW is using that idealogy, then they need to go back and look at Warcraft 3 random team matchmaking system.

Battlegrounds would be fully enjoyed if u can just log on and play, and to say people will not try to win when its rated, and awards are given based on rating, is completely absurd.

There will be a larger % of people who will TRY and WIN if the rewards are based on a rating, instead of just participation. The "afkers" etc, will not get anywhere, since the games they will be in will more likely be losing games, since they are one part of the team that is not helping, greatly putting that team at a disadvantage anyway.

So the afkers will give up.

Perhaps Blizzard needs to go back and look at games like Unreal Tournament, very succesful where people actually tried and win, and it was based on a join whe u want, play when u want.

This new theory of making and forcing this game on guilds, premades and teams will hurt more than help.

Look at Everquest II. You couldnt do anything in that game unless you are in a group. Not soloable at all.

I support this thread.
The majority of the player base that was cheering on the idea of rated BGs was thinking of ways to deal with rampant AFKs and creative ways to measure performance. I don't think anyone was asking for mandatory premades and the Arenification of BGs.
Let it go man...stop trying to force what the minority of the playerbase thinks SHOULD be and find ways to keep people hooked while catering to ideas that have proven to be popular. Ever notice how arena participation started to drop and has continued to do so after you put ratings requirements on the gear?
You need to find ways to accommodate your design goals into the style of play that people respond positively to rather than top-down trying to force something.

They're not gonna give out top tier PvP loot on silver platters. I'm sorry but its as simple as that and there is no other way to say it.

did we not just have this thread the other day?

---

Q u o t e:
They're not gonna give out top tier PvP loot on silver platters. I'm sorry but its as simple as that and there is no other way to say it.

---

OMG WELFARE EPIX DUR DUR DUR...
/facepalm

---

Q u o t e:
did we not just have this thread the other day?

---

I guess we need to have it again.

---

Q u o t e:

OMG WELFARE EPIX DUR DUR DUR...
/facepalm

---

Rofl yes because hateful/deady is the same ilvl as Icecrown Loot.

Wait no.
/facepalm

---

Q u o t e:


Rofl yes because hateful/deady is the same ilvl as Icecrown Loot.

Wait no.
/facepalm

---

Just go back to your arenas, this doesn't concern you.

---

Q u o t e:

Just go back to your arenas, this doesn't concern you.

---

So you resort to flaming and change the subject because your weak argument got shot down in 1 post.

Rated Battlegrounds were never intended to be free epics paradise for bad players. They are suppose to be an alternative to arena for people who enjoyed the original pre-made vs pre-made pvp before arenas came out.

Soloing and/or AFKing will never get you top end rewards in this game.

---

Q u o t e:


So you resort to flaming and change the subject because your weak argument got shot down in 1 post.

Rated Battlegrounds were never intended to be free epics paradise for bad players. They are suppose to be an alternative to arena for people who enjoyed the original pre-made vs pre-made pvp before arenas came out.

Soloing and/or AFKing will never get you top end rewards in this game.

---

I stand by my statement

---

Q u o t e:

I stand by my statement

---

Then you may as well quit this game. It's impossible to implement a rated BG system that will reward a soloist without rewarding the worst of the worst at the same time(AFKers, keyboard turners, clickers etc...).

And people that bought this game expecting to advance their characters through soloing confuse me to begin with...

---

Q u o t e:
3. The endgame structure we have for WoW rewards for organizational effort (this is the primary reason that 25-person raids are rewarded more highly than 10-person raids). There is no organizational effort in solo-queue'ing for battlegrounds, yet the ilevel of the rewards are on par with 25-person raiding.

---

I have a question about this.....

Why were premades nerfed back in TBC then?
Why was the join as group removed from AV?

Apparently the end game structure changes on a daily basis.

Why make the same topic again?
Stop being thick headed and look at thing's from the correct perspective.

What you seem to want is a First person shooter.

This is a role playing game.

This is a role playing game.

This is a role playing game.

Solo play is not rewarded to the same standards as organised group play.
This is apparent at level 15 or so when player's get blues from group instances.

I hope this message was helpful.

I would have to say it is bitter sweet. I have an opinion on it but it is a bit flawed itself.



I, too, get tired of the AFKers in Battlegrounds. They are the reasons for why they are a lot of failures in the games. Having 32 vs 40 people make it a very hard match. Soloist like me who is actually pretty good at PvP find it very hard to get the gear need to progress in the game. Arena Partners are never online, and nobody has a spot for me on the team. My guild is a Raiding guild, but refuses to bring anyone with PvP gear into the raids, so I am stuck doing Heroics for a very long time, and getting ready to leave and find a BG Heroes/ Arena Gladiators Guild. So a lot of soloist in this game are pretty much stuck. They will never progress through the Soloist wall, and they will forever be limited in this game. I played this game because other MMOs require a group to lvl. like Final Fantasy 11, and Everquest, and it sucks at the PvP aspect of the game. So yes, it is a social game unfortunately. Soloist will never be as good as raiders and Arena Players.

I do feel your pain bro.

IMHO one of the hardest thing's about getting into arena and enjoying it is simply finding good partner's. Not just good but also people who you enjoy playing with... Anyhu's I don't want to rave, but spend some time looking for those diamond's in the rough, talk to people who you play with and iniatiate group ques can be a good one I found. Duel alot and talk to people outside Org/SW... You'd be surprised but once you get the ball rolling, finding teams and like minded player's become's exponetially easier.

don't worry, once they realize that it takes 30 mins to an hour to find ONE game they will revert back to allowing you to solo queue or small group queue

I don't see this rated BG business going far at all.

As for the AFKers, why not just make the AFK tagged person lose A TON of rating/experience if he gets tagged? Let's say he loses the equivalent exp of 20 BG wins?