I hit 70 on my main about a month or so before Lich King launched. I spent a lot of that time on the Isle of Quel'Danas making money. Of course, as soon as I got Wrath, I never went back.

When Cataclysm hits, will the Argent Tournament suffer the same fate? Are they any plans to keep it relevant with new quests for more money at max level, or is it going to be another Quel'Danas, completely forgotten by the devs and players, just taking up space?

I figure that lore-wise, the Argent Tournament will 'end' with ICC, given that it's whole purpose is to prepare us for that challenge. If Blizz has no intentions of doing more with the Tournament, what are the chances it will actually END, instead of just falling into disuse?

Take Onyxia for example. People would still run her regular, but she wasn't relevant content - she was a relic. So Blizz is giving her a facelift. Is all the old content bound to end up the same way?

Since WoW is such a huge game, there are bound to be pockets of 'lost' content formed every time a new expansion hits. Cataclysm seems to be concerned with eliminating that in old world Azeroth, bringing all the old content up to par with the current expansion. But it seems like it's an endless kind of thing - because with Northrend and New Azeroth, Outland is going to seem like outdated crap (and it kind of already does). Should they then redo Outland? Should they every actually make content like that obsolete, by offering a way to get to 70 in New Azeroth?

Sorry, it appears my thoughts got away with me.

welcome to the treadmill

It's just the nature of the game. New replaces the old, but since there are new places the old needs to remain in some shape or form for the new players to get access to the new content. They could redo Outland I suppose but I don't see much of a point. Azeroth, that is, the two primary continents (Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor) are basically the core of the game itself. They hold the centers of all the racial kingdoms, they are equally if not more steeped in lore (if you care about that sort of thing) than any other place, and from a gameplay perspective they are the first places we all experienced as new players ourselves.

The revamping of the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor is a totally different beast than updating areas like Outland, in my opinion. It includes many, many things the general playerbase has been requesting for a long time: Updating the oldest content for alts, making it exciting for mains (i.e. nostalgia + usefulness), and getting back into a story arc that is, quite frankly, older and more firmly grounded in the Warcraft world than Illidan, and yes, even Arthas.

I could see the validity in making it possible to level (58-68) through the new-old content without going to Outland, but I think the focus is going to be on making the 80-85 experience something memorable and exciting, with an even bigger focus on level 85 content in the revamped old world.

Blizzard can't continue to rehash the same tired old content over and over simply because you're worried about it losing relevance. Time and WoW move on. Perhaps you should do so as well.

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Q u o t e:
Blizzard can't continue to rehash the same tired old content over and over simply because you're worried about it losing relevance. Time and WoW move on. Perhaps you should do so as well.

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I know right, they'll never reuse Naxx.

Or Ragnaros.

Or Nefarian.

Or Onyxia.

Hopefully the ground will open up and swallow the entire tournament grounds, and Quel'danas along with it.

The difference between the Isle of Quel'Danas and the Argent Tournament is that the stuff you could get from the Isle was pretty much all gear (if I am recalling correctly) that became useless past 70. The AT has rewards other than gear that people might still want, even at 85... such as mounts, pets, the Argent Pony Bridle (for bank/mail/vendor access).

Granted, these are all vanity items, however, certainly mount and pet collectors may still be inclined to do these dailies... and also, there is the heirloom gear that is available for Champion Seals which may bring people to the AT as well.

I can't think of a single reason to go and do the Isle dailies at this point though.

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Q u o t e:
I know right, they'll never reuse Naxx.

Or Ragnaros.

Or Nefarian.

Or Onyxia.

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And I think those are horrible ideas. I'm tired of Onyxia. I think it's incredibly lazy that they're rehashing that old content. Same for heroic Deadmines and Shadowfang. Thanks, but I've been there and done that.

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Q u o t e:
It's just the nature of the game. New replaces the old, but since there are new places the old needs to remain in some shape or form for the new players to get access to the new content. They could redo Outland I suppose but I don't see much of a point. Azeroth, that is, the two primary continents (Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor) are basically the core of the game itself. They hold the centers of all the racial kingdoms, they are equally if not more steeped in lore (if you care about that sort of thing) than any other place, and from a gameplay perspective they are the first places we all experienced as new players ourselves.

The revamping of the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor is a totally different beast than updating areas like Outland, in my opinion. It includes many, many things the general playerbase has been requesting for a long time: Updating the oldest content for alts, making it exciting for mains (i.e. nostalgia + usefulness), and getting back into a story arc that is, quite frankly, older and more firmly grounded in the Warcraft world than Illidan, and yes, even Arthas.

I could see the validity in making it possible to level (58-68) through the new-old content without going to Outland, but I think the focus is going to be on making the 80-85 experience something memorable and exciting, with an even bigger focus on level 85 content in the revamped old world.

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Yeah, I am entirely jazzed at what Cataclysm brings to the table, especially the fact that it seems lore is front-and-center, and the somewhat static story of Warcraft will actually move forward.

I also don't see much point in redoing Outlands (but having to go through it again on this dude I am struggling to see much point in Outlands, period), but I wonder how dated it will seem when Cataclysm hits. Right now the progression makes sense - Outlands improves on Azeroth and Northrend vastly improves on Outlands. Each expansion brings new ideas, so I feel that the quality of content will soon be Cataclysm > Wrath > BC.

Right now I am doing my best to rush through Outlands (by way of a lot of BGs) so i can get to the content I want to play. Not level 80, though that's the ultimate goal, but I want to get to 68 as soon as I can, because I loved playing through Northrend more than any of the other content to date.

I just wonder with how much the game changes each expansion, how much revising of older content will happen? And bear in mind I think it's a very good thing.

Actually, I'm very sure that people will continue doing the AT, even when they hit 85. At least, moreso than people do the Isle of Quel'danas.

There are 11 pets and 16 mounts from the tournament. For collectors of either of these things, they'll want to get their hands on them. You can buy the pets on the AH, but the mounts require some grinding from the tourney.

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Q u o t e:
I can't think of a single reason to go and do the Isle dailies at this point though.

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That's my point - should they just nuke it? Reuse it? Let it sit forgotten and unloved?

I am a big fan of the new - my wish for the next expansion, before anything was announced or leaked, was that we would all be pulled into the Emerald Dream, which would see a completely feral and verdant Azeroth that looked nothing like what we've come to know.

The reason to do the Isle Dailies is for people working on exalted reputation achievements. It's a quick, easy notch on their belt.

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Q u o t e:
The reason to do the Isle Dailies is for people working on exalted reputation achievements. It's a quick, easy notch on their belt.

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Fair enough - and the Tournament is another easy way to grind rep, so maybe that's what will keep it going.

I just wonder if Blizzard will every 'retire' PvE content. Not reuse necessarily.

Like, before ICC comes out, they could say that in a month's time the Argent Tournament will END. As in, forever. It's unlikely given that Trial of the Crusader is progression content, but I think it could be cool to remove things once their relevance has past.

One of my favourite things about the Zombie Invasion was that it was entirely unique and temporary. If you missed it, you missed it. It gives the world a flavour of being an actual place where things happen, and can stop happening.

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Q u o t e:
I know right, they'll never reuse Naxx.

Or Ragnaros.

Or Nefarian.

Or Onyxia.

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Onyxia's being brought back simply for the sake of nostalgia and the fact that it's the 5th anniversary of one of the most well-known raid bosses ever (by the way, she'll be in 3.2.2, not cata, so your point is moot anyway)

Nef and Rag are being brought back as characters, but they're getting new fights built from the ground up and new dungeons built from the ground up, so why are you qqing about it? People have been asking to revisit bosses like these for years, and still you complain.

I agree that the zombie invasion was unique and cool because it was a one time thing. Same with the AQ invasion. However, a daily-hub is pretty different, especially when it's giving rewards like pets, mounts, tabards, and rep - all stuff people like to collect for achievements. Since it's not really doing any harm to remain in the game, I don't see a problem with leaving it there. After all, if some people join WoW during Cataclysm, and level up through Northrend, they might be interested in fighting Arthas. If they do, it wouldn't make sense for the tourney to suddenly dissapear.

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Q u o t e:
I agree that the zombie invasion was unique and cool because it was a one time thing. Same with the AQ invasion. However, a daily-hub is pretty different, especially when it's giving rewards like pets, mounts, tabards, and rep - all stuff people like to collect for achievements. Since it's not really doing any harm to remain in the game, I don't see a problem with leaving it there. After all, if some people join WoW during Cataclysm, and level up through Northrend, they might be interested in fighting Arthas. If they do, it wouldn't make sense for the tourney to suddenly dissapear.

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Very true.

Phasing? As in, you have attained Crusader and defeated Arthas, so the AT is phased out for you. Sort of like the AT arena looks when you're not going in instanced - full of janitors and magic brooms.

The AT is probably a poor example of the idea, anyway. I just wonder if Blizz would ever retire content, or design content that could be retired (outside Arena Seasons), purposefully, to give the world a true sense of momentum.