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Q u o t e:
Give BoSanc a 10% STR bonus also... real tank blessing at last? yup

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Why stop there? Lets make it give 10% more AGI as well for the dodge, armor and crit...and paladins use mana and can increase their mana pool with INT, so lets make it give 10% more INT too.

So now we have a blessing that gives 3% damage reduction, mana return on dodge/parry/block, and 10% to all stats except Spirit...but who needs spirit anyway?

...lets just roll all of this functionality into Kings already, honestly.

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Q u o t e:
...lets just roll all of this functionality into Kings already, honestly.

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Yes, this would be a good change. For non-paladins who are opposed to this, please honestly ask yourself the following question: how would this change affect me?

In 5-mans it would make prot paladins slightly more powerful, and therefore non-paladins relatively slightly weaker. But so what? 5-man content is trivial with any tank.

In 10-mans, do you normally raid with a prot paladin? If so, then you can enjoy the combined buff just as much as paladins would. You wouldn't necessarily have to stack the raid with at least one paladin for kings and one disc priest or prot paladin for 3% DR, which means more room for your friends. If you happen to bring a prot and another paladin anyway, you get sanctified kings and might at all times.

25-player raids are in the same situation as 10s, except you're a little more likely to have a prot paladin along, and therefore more likely to receive the benefits of this change. If you don't, then you wouldn't notice the change anyway.

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Q u o t e:


Warriors live with this choice always. CommShout for Health vs Battle Shout for Threat.
This, in effect, is similar to your worry of Kings for threat stats vs BoSanc for Mana returns/DR, The only real difference here is that a Warriors choice affects his/her whole raid/group, while a Paladin has the option of giving out singular buffs.
Warriors and Paladins are not unique in this regard, as Mages choose wich Armor to apply for various effects, Hunters and thier Aspects, Shaman and thier Totems. Most classes must make a choice regarding wich buff to apply in a given situation, sometimes that buff comes with a loss.
Sure, it sucks that the choice is a hard one sometimes, But, at least you *have* the choice. Choice is a part of the fun, if the whole game were 100% linear in gear upgrades and buff choices, what is left to the player but to put a dipping bird on the keyboard?

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Kings and Sanctuary are exclusive to Paladins and Prot Paladins respectively. Your two shouts are provided by different classes regardless of whether Imp is a bit weaker.

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Q u o t e:
We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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And AGI? The fact is, I still want kings and sanctuary on to tank but because of the class based restrictions on blessing you have to mix and match 10 minute buffs between paladins and often are forced to use pally power addon to do this.

If nothing else, can you add a minor glyph of blessing of sanctuary to extend it's duration to 30 minutes when cast on yourself?

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Q u o t e:
We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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oh ho ho

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Q u o t e:

We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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I know it's been mentioned many times before, but by doing this it's nearly a second version of BoKings but without the resource generation.

I still maintain it's logical to just make BoSanc an improved BoKings (BoKings with the DR and mana regen rolled into it).

But thanks for letting us know that you guys are considering this.

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Q u o t e:


And AGI? The fact is, I still want kings and sanctuary on to tank but because of the class based restrictions on blessing you have to mix and match 10 minute buffs between paladins and often are forced to use pally power addon to do this.

If nothing else, can you add a minor glyph of blessing of sanctuary to extend it's duration to 30 minutes when cast on yourself?

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Why would they need to add agi to Sanc?

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Q u o t e:
I know it's been mentioned many times before, but by doing this it's nearly a second version of BoKings but without the resource generation.

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This imo. There doesn't seem to be that much point to keeping them seperate if that's being considered except to keep them seperate.

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Q u o t e:
We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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Is there a reason that Sanctuary has to be distinct from Kings at this point? I mean we also want Agi for tanking too (armor/dodge/crit) and then at that point it's just Intellect and Spirit....

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Q u o t e:
We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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I still don't get the point of Sanctuary, I'm sorry.

At first, it was "the" tank blessing, and was then nerfed to mainly be appealing to Tankadins. Then the stamina bonus was added, and now strength. What's next? Adding agility as well, that way, it can be Kings, but with another name.

Why not just remove it, turn it into a passive talent that gives Sanctuary buff, when you have Kings on you?

What should have been done back when they baked in the 10% in the first place was simply to replace BoS with a 1 point talent that causes the paladin to gain 3% DR and mana regen on blocks/dodges/parries whenever the paladin is under the effects of Blessing of Kings.

Then we'd just have the 1 tanking buff.

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Q u o t e:
We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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At this point it seems silly to not just call it Improved Kings.

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Q u o t e:
We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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For God's sake, just suck it up and make Sanctuary an Improved Kings. Adds 3% damage reduction to a Kings blessing then tie in the mana return somewhere else (add it to a talent deep in the tree that when RF is up we gain mana when we block, dodge or parry an attack). You're moving this direction by tiny little baby steps, just take the adult sized step and MAKE THE CHANGE.

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Q u o t e:
I think it's way past the time you guys find creative ways to dance around the issue and just make Sanctuary the 2.0 version of Kings. We've been saying for ages that Paladins do not need 4 blessings and the change to Sanctuary in 3.2 shows that you agree with us, at least partly. Why are you trying so hard to reject the idea of streamlining 1 blessing per tree? It is not making the game any better.

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Actually, it is one blessing per tree.

Holy has Imp. BoW.
Ret has Imp. Might.
Prot has Imp. BoK2.0.

They just need to get rid of BoS, and make BoS talent improve BoK to give the mana return. Voila, no more brainstorming about useless stuff, no more "Let's give you sort of Kings blessing, but kind of not, since it gives you mana, and is called Sanctuary, and doesn't stack with Kings anyway".

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Q u o t e:

At this point it seems silly to not just call it Improved Kings.

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Gotta emphasize this. No Holy paladin would give up Beacon for Sanc, and no Ret paladin will give up Divine Storm. So only dedicated Protection paladins would provide Improved Kings. It's definitely not like every raid would have the buff.

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Q u o t e:
We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal, and we might end up adding Strength to it to make it play better with the Touched by the Light change.

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Druid threat and rage generation relies pretty heavily on our crit chance, so it would only make sense that agility be added as well. But wait... why even bother having sanctuary? Might as well turn the Sanctuary talent into an Imp Kings talent and simply add the 3% damage reduction and mana return to the kings buff itself?

Paladins are the only tanking class where their threat scaled along with the amount of HP they stacked. I would definitely see this as a problem and I thought that was one of the things that the TbtL change was supposed to address (aside from nerfing prot pvp healing).

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Q u o t e:


Gotta emphasize this. No Holy paladin would give up Beacon for Sanc, and no Ret paladin will give up Divine Storm. So only dedicated Protection paladins would provide Improved Kings. It's definitely not like every raid would have the buff.

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That's where it's BAD. Things like Kings and BoS's 3% damage reduction NEED to be spread out to more classes and specs.

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Q u o t e:


That's where it's BAD. Things like Kings and BoS's 3% damage reduction NEED to be spread out to more classes and specs.

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Well, Kings = Any Paladin
3% DR = Prot Paladin and Disc Priest

What's wrong with this breakdown?

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Q u o t e:

That's where it's BAD. Things like Kings and BoS's 3% damage reduction NEED to be spread out to more classes and specs.

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The 3% DR is already with another class. AFAIK Discipline Priests also provide this as a standard part of their healing/shielding rotations.

And I think the way they justify BoKings is that it's now baseline and the chances are high that you will have at least one paladin in a raid. I know it's kind of iffy really because it's still one class only, but I believe that's the justification for this. It's no longer a single spec buff, it's a class buff.