World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> General Vezax Encounter Changes

Crygil

Blizzard Poster

0. General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 02:49:25 PM PDT

We wanted to make players aware of several changes made to the General Vezax encounter upon the release of patch 3.2, which weren't noted in the official patch notes.

These changes affect both 10-player and 25-player modes. First off, when considering the hardmode of the encounter, the mechanics were overly favoring groups that made heavy use of Restoration druids (Omen of Clarity procs) and “Enhancement” shamans using healing gear (Shamanistic Rage and Improved Stormstrike) to circumvent the mana restrictions. Omen of Clarity will no longer proc for Restoration druids, and Enhancement shamans receive a healing debuff similar to the ones Retribution paladins have had since the encounter’s initial implementation.

Recognizing that this would make the encounter far more difficult for raid groups that have come to rely on those mechanics, we also made changes to ease the overall mana burden when attempting the hardmode. The health of General Vezax and the Saronite Animus was reduced by roughly 25%, and the Animus will now spawn after six Vapors, down from eight, assuming none have been killed.

In addition, prior to 3.2, General Vezax could be very erratic in the use of some of his abilities, leading to long gaps between Shadow Crashes in particular. His behavior in this regard is now more consistent. As a side-effect of this change, in 25-player mode in particular, he will also cast Searing Flames slightly more often – whenever his Fire school isn’t locked out by player interrupts, essentially. Finally, because the “more consistent” Crash use ended up being a bit on the frequent side, a minor hotfix recently increased the period between Crash casts.

Morrie

< Bedlam >

Nesingwary

1. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 03:20:29 PM PDT

Will the 10-man encounter still only essentially require 1 dedicated interrupt to prevent Searing Flames?

Taym

< Padded Helmets >

Norgannon

2. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 03:22:06 PM PDT

So shamans can no longer interrupt vezax, as that will likely wipe the raid. Is there any intention to change the "casts when not locked out" mechanic?

Massivekitty

< Bane >

Baelgun

3. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 03:25:07 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Will the 10-man encounter still only essentially require 1 dedicated interrupt to prevent Searing Flames?

The way this is sounding it makes it sound like you'll need 2 or so.

kick 10 seconds cd, 5 second duration.
pummel 10 seconds cd, 4 second duration.
wind shear 6 second cd, 2 second duration.
mind freeze 10 seconds cd, 4 second duration.

Basically 2 if you have a rogue, 3 if you don't have a rogue and have at least 1 dk or warrior, or if you have 3 shamans.

[ Post edited by Massivekitty ]

That's a funny coincidence, Drysc urinates himself everyday.
-Drysc, 73|-| 5|-|17

Long live the stork, Uklesh.

Drun

Cenarius

4. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 03:28:18 PM PDT

Will you be fixing lifebloom in this encounter, during this fight it only gives 1/4 of the mana return instead of 1/2 of the mana as it is suppose to?

What is the most over powered class http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtDB2f0AJus
"nerf rock paper fine" Scissors
"just imagine if dps was .2 seconds late on thier dps caused a wipe" Vanna - Shadowsong

Groktar

< Impulse >

Daggerspine

5. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 03:32:41 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Will the 10-man encounter still only essentially require 1 dedicated interrupt to prevent Searing Flames?

He seemed to behave exactly as he did in 3.1 on 10 man. However, we quickly discovered that 3 interrupts is pretty much mandatory on 25 man. With only two we were definitely running into problems with the interrupt still being on cooldown when he was casting.

Tinfoil hats: Keep the government out and your manly lust in.

Dragonpark

< Insurrection >

Drenden

6. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 03:37:18 PM PDT

It would have been rather preferable if you made this information available upon the release of 3.2. We were rather perplexed as to why his health was reduced by such a large margin and our resto druid was getting quite frustrated with getting zero OOC procs during the hour of attempts it took us to kill it.

Such drastic changes to the mechanics of a boss that has been in the game for months SHOULD be announced when the changes are put in place.

Rhaan

< Death Star Orphans >

Norgannon

7. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 03:57:10 PM PDT

I try not to overreact to changes like this, but feral druids just got a kick in the junk with the Omen of Clarity change. Not having time to check, I am having to guess that I would get at least 20 omen procs during the course of that fight. Using only a 20 energy attack would still total 400 energy loss for the fight. It's one of the fights that doesn't require that I fiddle-fart around with timing combo points so that I can switch to some gimmicky add without completely crippling my dps.

I enjoy the challenge of fights that require movement and force me to employ as much skill as I can, but I also don't mind a tank and spank every few bosses so I can really get my rotation as tight as possible. This and XT are the two fights where ferals can really shine.

But by all means, screw us over because your Pseudo-Beta testing, coupled with months of live testing has only just brought this to light. Sure it tooks months to discover, but it only takes one knee-jerk reaction to completely screw over other specs because "GUILDS WHO HAVE RESTO DRUIDS HAVE AN ADVANTAGE."

Who gives a rat's effin' ass. Seriously.

STOP NERFING THE INNOCENT BECAUSE YOUR DESIGN TEAM DIDN'T EVEN MANAGE TO PROPERLY CONSIDER ALL MANA RETURN MECHANICS.

Truthfully, it isn't that big of a deal, but I didn't do anything wrong. Why impact my fun?

[ Post edited by Rhaan ]

Oliaga

< Paradigm >

Steamwheedle Cartel

8. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 04:03:37 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I try not to overreact to changes like this, but feral druids just got a kick in the junk with the Omen of Clarity change. Not having time to check, I am having to guess that I would get at least 20 omen procs during the course of that fight. Using only a 20 energy attack would still total 400 energy loss for the fight. It's one of the fights that doesn't require that I fiddle-fart around with timing combo points so that I can switch to some gimmicky add without completely crippling my dps.

Calm down and work on your reading comprehension:

Q u o t e:
Omen of Clarity will no longer proc for Restoration druids, and Enhancement shamans receive a healing debuff similar to the ones Retribution paladins have had since the encounter’s initial implementation.

[ Post edited by Oliaga ]

Sorry doesn't kill bosses.

Guldrakk

< Crimson Dawn >

Eitrigg

9. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 04:03:48 PM PDT

So...you need 2 rogues or 3 interrupters. In 10 or 25 man eh?

Fantastic. Everyone has two rogues always available for their 10 man raids. Also you made it so it's pretty much nigh impossible to have reliable enhance shammies interrupting because of the massive 2 seconds between the boss' casting. Awesome.

Playtest changes of this magnitude much? You miss one interrupt he chain casts it. Awesome. Simply awesome to have to tie a significant portion of the raid to staring at the boss' cast bar.

Did I forget to say how AWESOME this change is? Yes, let's lower the health because you know that's the hard part of the fight. I already enjoy spending 75% of the fight waiting for a shadow crash. Now I get to spend 80% of the fight waiting around doing nothing. And get to enjoy praying we have two rogues on to interrupt, and never make one mistake the whole fight. Simply awesome. So lower the health and make everything else a bigger pain in the butt. So awesome.

Yes, that was all sarcasm. You really need to rethink the changes to searing flames. Really. Put it back the way it was, I'd rather have him have more health instead of spamming searing flames constantly.

And the change as announced before the patch was very poorly done. You made it sound like he'd cast searing flames less...when in fact, he casts it way more often. Nothing like being surprised at raid time.

[ Post edited by Guldrakk ]

Thank you, drive through

Kauz

< Death Star Orphans >

Norgannon

10. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 04:04:11 PM PDT

I figured I'd support my own post, above, with some street cred. Secondly, I figured I'd also ask if blizz plans on making any changes to talents that are supported by set bonuses.

Not only did they just nerf an important mechanic of my dps output, they completely negated the benefit of my 4 piece set bonus.

Thanks for putting it on my gear and then making it entirely useless. And please don't reply with a response that suggests that healer gear has MP5 and it's useless for this fight. 1, healers can change gear to all int, etc. Which a lot do. 2, mana regen mechanics are the gimmick of this fight. Not completely removing the benefit of a dps classes 4-piece set bonus.

Small as this change is, this one doesn't sit well with me.

[ Post edited by Kauz ]

Elanee

< CWAL Ops >

Mannoroth

11. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 04:07:29 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I try not to overreact to changes like this, but feral druids just got a kick in the junk with the Omen of Clarity change. Not having time to check, I am having to guess that I would get at least 20 omen procs during the course of that fight. Using only a 20 energy attack would still total 400 energy loss for the fight. It's one of the fights that doesn't require that I fiddle-fart around with timing combo points so that I can switch to some gimmicky add without completely crippling my dps.

I enjoy the challenge of fights that require movement and force me to employ as much skill as I can, but I also don't mind a tank and spank every few bosses so I can really get my rotation as tight as possible. This and XT are the two fights where ferals can really shine.

But by all means, screw us over because your Pseudo-Beta testing, coupled with months of live testing has only just brought this to light. Sure it tooks months to discover, but it only takes one knee-jerk reaction to completely screw over other specs because "GUILDS WHO HAVE RESTO DRUIDS HAVE AN ADVANTAGE."

Who gives a rat's effin' ass. Seriously.

STOP NERFING THE INNOCENT BECAUSE YOUR DESIGN TEAM DIDN'T EVEN MANAGE TO PROPERLY CONSIDER ALL MANA RETURN MECHANICS.

Truthfully, it isn't that big of a deal, but I didn't do anything wrong. Why impact my fun?

Our feral druid was getting OOC procs last week on Vezax. It only effects resto.

[ Post edited by Elanee ]

Gurgthock

< Elitist Jerks >

Mal'Ganis

12. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 04:14:19 PM PDT

Searing Flames didn't change at all in 10-man. In 10-man it's always had its own cooldown -- once every 10-12 sec or so, and any melee interrupter (shaman is fine) can solo-interrupt every cast.

From what I saw this week, and the post above, all that changed is that on 25-man he uses all his abilities more consistently. He won't randomly wait 30sec to Crash and then spam two back-to-back, and he'll cast Searing Flames. Two rogues can definitely get every Flames on 25-man, though having a third interrupter makes it safer.

25-man Vezax has always obeyed school lockout, and having a shaman shocking a cast on 25-man has always been a recipe for a wipe, since day one. (This is also true for almost every interrupt encounter I can think of, from Reliquary phase 2 to Kel'Thuzad v1.0 Frostbolts.)

Overall the fight is easier, takes less time, and you have less RNG where sometimes he doesn't fire a Shadow Crash for a minute and you wipe because of it.

Kauz

< Death Star Orphans >

Norgannon

13. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 04:24:21 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Calm down and work on your reading comprehension:

While I will concede that I may have reacted hastily, nothing in this post suggests how this mechanic is managed, and how the system determines what 'Resto' is. I'm sure I'll be told by a few players here what constitutes 'Resto' but I personally don't know (and I'd wager they really don't know either.)

Perhaps I should have asked, but OOC is a resto talent, which unlike Shamanistic Rage, can be reached in the talent tree by ferals and balance druids.

If it is prohibited from proccing off of healing spells then it's an easy answer, but I'd like to know. If Blizz doesn't wish to divulge the mechanics, then a simple confirmation that this will not affect ferals is all I'm asking for.

Guldrakk

< Crimson Dawn >

Eitrigg

14. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 04:26:18 PM PDT

I never had any problems interrupting as enhance shaman in prior raids...from the fights in BT all the way back to that mage dude in Kara in Burning Crusade.

WTB: 3rd reliable interrupter. It's been tough enough to find 2 dangit.

[ Post edited by Guldrakk ]

Thank you, drive through

Gurgthock

< Elitist Jerks >

Mal'Ganis

15. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 05:15:50 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
If it is prohibited from proccing off of healing spells then it's an easy answer, but I'd like to know. If Blizz doesn't wish to divulge the mechanics, then a simple confirmation that this will not affect ferals is all I'm asking for.

Our feral druid had normal OOC procs last night on Vezax. The trees got none.

Edinn

< Ascended >

Bonechewer

16. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 05:18:49 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
While I will concede that I may have reacted hastily, nothing in this post suggests how this mechanic is managed, and how the system determines what 'Resto' is. I'm sure I'll be told by a few players here what constitutes 'Resto' but I personally don't know (and I'd wager they really don't know either.)

Perhaps I should have asked, but OOC is a resto talent, which unlike Shamanistic Rage, can be reached in the talent tree by ferals and balance druids.

If it is prohibited from proccing off of healing spells then it's an easy answer, but I'd like to know. If Blizz doesn't wish to divulge the mechanics, then a simple confirmation that this will not affect ferals is all I'm asking for.

Clearcasting procs for a bear, a cat, and a moonkin on our Vezax kill last night:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/ability/6670288/16870/Clearcasting

Our resto druid in the raid got no OoC procs, though he is specced for it.

[ Post edited by Edinn ]

Didn't we have some fun? Remember when the platform was going into the fire and I said 'Goodbye' and you were like 'NO WAY' and I was like 'We pretended we were going to murder you.' That was great.

Taym

< Padded Helmets >

Norgannon

17. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 05:27:00 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I never had any problems interrupting as enhance shaman in prior raids...from the fights in BT all the way back to that mage dude in Kara in Burning Crusade.

WTB: 3rd reliable interrupter. It's been tough enough to find 2 dangit.

The problem is that Vezax 25 now casts Searing Flames basically as soon as the school lockout ends. Shamans have a 2 second lock out. The fight is still doable with only two interrupts, so long as neither is a shaman... A shaman can be used for a third interrupt, but lacks even there, because they buy so little time before the next cast.

Kauz

< Death Star Orphans >

Norgannon

18. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 05:27:41 PM PDT

Awesome news. Big thanks for clarifying this. Back to my hole.

Meia

< Dark Pact >

Bloodhoof

19. Re: General Vezax Encounter Changes 08/11/2009 05:35:59 PM PDT

Which is an ok change I guess.

Still would love a response as to why you turned the unstable energy graphics in the freya encounter upside down. Still haven't seen a response on this issue yet.

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