World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes

Crygil

Blizzard Poster

0. Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:31:47 PM PDT

During the 3.2 development cycle, players reported the bug that Hot Streak did not trigger from Living Bomb critical periodic damage. Initially, we made the decision to continue preventing Hot Streak from triggering. This resulted in the “non-periodic” text being added to the Hot Streak tooltip. Late in the 3.2 cycle, the decision was revisited, and Hot Streak was allowed to trigger from Living Bomb periodic damage, but too late to correct the tooltip. However, around the same time, Living Bomb was changed to be allowed on multiple targets per Mage. In addition, our QA team discovered a 3.2.0 live bug that periodic damage from Fireball and Frostfire Bolt was being counted toward breaking the Hot Streak (as these could never crit). In discussion yesterday, we determined that with multiple targets per Mage, Living Bomb periodic damage triggering Hot Streak was too powerful. However, we still liked Living Bomb being used on multiple targets and didn’t want to change that. Instead, yesterday (Wed Aug 5) we hotfixed Hot Streak so it could no longer be triggered by periodic damage, resolving both the bug with Fireball and Frostfire Bolt, and the balance concern with Living Bomb. In the course of that hotfix, a data error was introduced which caused the non-periodic damage from Fireball and Frostfire Bolt to never break the Hot Streak streaks on non-crits. That data error was corrected with a hotfix this morning (Thr Aug 6).

Final result:
Host Streak triggers exactly as stated in its tooltip: “2 non-periodic spell criticals in a row using Fireball, Fire Blast, Scorch, Living Bomb, or Frostfire Bolt”. Only non-periodic damage interacts with it, and only those spells listed. Periodics do not affect the streak in any way. Direct damage from the listed spells always count, for or against the streak.

Sorry for any confusion that resulted from us not posting this sooner. We’ve been making many fixes since 3.2 went live this week.

[ Post edited by Crygil ]

Ultrakatie

< Legion of the Shadow >

Anvilmar

1. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:36:00 PM PDT

Why exactly did you feel that LB preiodic crits proccing HS was too powerful? What data did you use to come to tis conclusion? Was this decision based on PvP or PvE? Was it because of the glyph? Futhermore, where do you think mage DPS stands in now 3.2 after the hotfix (compared to other classes)? I think that the mage community at least deserves an explaination.

edit: added more Qs

[ Post edited by Ultrakatie ]

Id make a signature but then how would i hide behind my alts when i am to afraid to post on my main?

Mui

< Smiles for Miles >

Darrowmere

2. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:39:08 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I would really like an explaination as to why you decided this was too powerful. PvE? PvP? Why?

Especially since you nerfed it before many guilds even got a chance to raid. Did you do internal testing in between when the patch went final and Tuesday? Will Mages get the 4% single target damage that this change takes away from us back in some other form since Premonition data showed Mages just slightly trailing Warlocks with the DoT proc'd Hotstreaks?

[ Post edited by Mui ]

Give not thyself up, then, to fire, lest it invert thee, deaden thee; as for the time it did me. There is a wisdom that is woe; but there is a woe that is madness.

Velaraf

Medivh

3. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:40:38 PM PDT

Yes, i would like to know as well. the periodic damage causing hotstreak actually helped out our single target dps and put us up there with the other pure dps classes like we should be instead of being mediocore single target dps at best.

Alyred

< Ascension >

Madoran

4. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:43:23 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I would really like an explaination as to why you decided this was too powerful. PvE? PvP? Why?

-Alyred
True evil never sleeps... it merely rests its eyes...

Absolute

< I N V I C T U S >

Deathwing

5. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:43:29 PM PDT

I think I speak for the rest of the mages when I say we would rather have LB ticks to proc HS and you take away the effect that we can put it on multiple targets... atleast then our DPS would be able to keep up with other pure DPS classes... lol...

Appletini

< Sad Panda Patrol >

Bonechewer

6. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:44:26 PM PDT

Based on my experience with LB being castable on multiple targets simultaneous with periodic LB ticks proccing Hot Streak, all it really did was improve my damage output on fights where it was artificially reduced by the mechanics of the fight. E.g. fights with multiple targets, which typically have me at a significantly lower damage output than other classes had me higher than I used to be but still not above those other classes.

I'm not sure what drove this change from you devs. You finally made it so I could at least be competitive with Rogues, Hunters, Warlocks and Warriors on trash packs and multitarget boss fights and then you remove. Were other mages experiencing something vastly different from me? Was this driven by you observing the tip-top percent of mages in stacked 25-mans?

Here you had made a very strong improvement to Mages that didn't make them overpowered, but then you nerfed it before even having enough sample size to see if it would eventually lead to overinflated numbers for Mages across the board.

I'm disappointed.

Uldaman Now Dog

Sorlag

< Inadequate >

Akama

7. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:46:12 PM PDT

PVP:

fire mages are not even PVP viable. why take the buff way

PVE Single Target:

we are BEHIND rogues, DKs, feral druids and warlocks. LB ticks triggering HS would just take us to their level.(~5% or 6% dps increase) why take the buff way?

...

Blizzard, this is disgusting

EDIT: spelling

[ Post edited by Sorlag ]

Alyred

< Ascension >

Madoran

9. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:48:57 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Here you had made a very strong improvement to Mages that didn't make them overpowered, but then you nerfed it before even having enough sample size to see if it would eventually lead to overinflated numbers for Mages across the board.

I'm disappointed.

Yes! 18 hours as opposed to ... 3 months for so-called "shadowfrost dk's", months longer for ret pallies... destro locks...

And as fire mages, we still have the lamest crit debuff -- 5 stacks of a casted spell vs. "additional" spell effect with locks and frost mages. Yay!

-Alyred
True evil never sleeps... it merely rests its eyes...

Gadge

< Pulse >

Malygos

10. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:53:07 PM PDT

Get rid of the multiple target option, we aren't locks or SPs, and let LB proc HS. Like others have said, Mages are hurting in now behind other pures and even hybrids.

Echoing Alyred's post. The scorch buff needs to change as well. Why can't all the spells that put up the same type of effect, put up the same spell buff so the duty can be spread around?

[ Post edited by Gadge ]

Zelia

Alexstrasza

11. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:53:30 PM PDT

Assuming that the initial Living Bomb Hot Streak was meant to bring our DPS / DPS Stability in line with other classes, are there changes on the way that will compensate for the hotfix?

[ Post edited by Zelia ]

Sorlag

< Inadequate >

Akama

12. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:54:20 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Based on my experience with LB being castable on multiple targets simultaneous with periodic LB ticks proccing Hot Streak, all it really did was improve my damage output on fights where it was artificially reduced by the mechanics of the fight. E.g. fights with multiple targets, which typically have me at a significantly lower damage output than other classes had me higher than I used to be but still not above those other classes.

I'm not sure what drove this change from you devs. You finally made it so I could at least be competitive with Rogues, Hunters, Warlocks and Warriors on trash packs and multitarget boss fights and then you remove. Were other mages experiencing something vastly different from me? Was this driven by you observing the tip-top percent of mages in stacked 25-mans?

Here you had made a very strong improvement to Mages that didn't make them overpowered, but then you nerfed it before even having enough sample size to see if it would eventually lead to overinflated numbers for Mages across the board.

I'm disappointed.

agreed 100%

and LB ticks triggering HS wouldn't even help us that much on bosses because most of ulduar adds have too low HP that LB wouldn't even explode. anyway it would be a good change because almost ALL classes and specs can do AOE dmg while AOE Dpsing, and we can't. it would help on trash too

again, I agree with you 100%

Breenn

< One Hell of a Posse >

Zangarmarsh

13. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:55:05 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
You finally made it so I could at least be competitive with Rogues, Hunters, Warlocks and Warriors on trash packs and multitarget boss fights and then you remove.

Erm? People still think of warriors as a non-hybrid?

On topic - glad the hotfix was decided and acted upon so fast before the heroic raiding starts.

Liberty

< Benighted >

Laughing Skull

14. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:56:46 PM PDT

Im shocked this has happen........What is this the third time you have done this to the mage class. Probably the only class in wow history that takes some of good buffs, and probably the fastest nerfs in all of history.

Accelerate

< Obsidian Chivalry >

Doomhammer

15. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:57:07 PM PDT

Fail train coming through, first stop mages!

Seriously, apart from the PvP implications of Living Bomb Multitarget(AV, WG. AKA, Non competitive PvP), this change only put us on par with the other pures(Or hybrids /facepalm). Just make it single target or a target cap and bring back the ticks doing Hot Streak.

Sancus

< Ropetown >

Executus

16. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 03:58:53 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Here you had made a very strong improvement to Mages that didn't make them overpowered, but then you nerfed it before even having enough sample size to see if it would eventually lead to overinflated numbers for Mages across the board.

I'm disappointed.

Even worse, you have dps tests with the "overpowered" change that show Mages still well behind Warlocks and vastly behind Rogues.

Not really sure what's overpowered here, but it clearly can't be Hot Streak proccing off Living Bomb dot crits.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

Sorlag

< Inadequate >

Akama

18. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 04:00:41 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Even worse, you have dps tests with the "overpowered" change that show Mages still well behind Warlocks and vastly behind Rogues.

Not really sure what's overpowered here, but it clearly can't be Hot Streak proccing off Living Bomb dot crits.

^ this

Eirian

Garona

19. Re: Recent Living Bomb and Hot Streak Changes 08/06/2009 04:01:04 PM PDT

Warlocks could already do what mages were doing in AV with seed of corruption, which is arguably better in many cases.

I don't think the ability was overpowered - and I doubt GC thinks so. Mostly it's that it was viable to just spam Living Bomb and get unending Hot Streak procs... Kind of gimmicky.

But once again I have to point to warlocks doing the same thing in AV... Oh and I would also mention rogues and their brain dead FoK spec.

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