Sorry for double post.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q u o t e:
I know this thread is about LB and HS procs and all, but honestly fella? Honestly? A mage saying they have no survivability?

Did you take Blink, Ice Block, Nova, and Invis off your bar or something?

-Dav
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



We are takling about PvE. The only thing that save us is Ice Block and invisible if u pull threat.

We have the lowest amount of HP, dont have any form of heals (dont dare to say glypf of evocation) and our talents only lower our dmg taken by a very little amount.

Im not saying mages are the worst class in the game, but I see that mages are falling behind after each patch. If u go to mages forum, almost everyone think the same.[/quote]

---

Q u o t e:
Here let me bold it for you.



Also: I know how hot streak works. It doesn't mean that you can't spend every single GCD on instant cast pyroblast if RNG is on your side or if you have LB on multiple targets. That's really out of balance. Oh and your pun is awful.

---

Yeah for 12 secs at the most we could become a glass cannon. Go figure!

Oh goodness. This thread is chock full of asinine arguments against Hot Streak proccing off LB DoT from people who have no concept of the mechanics behind mage spells. Good job voicing your opinion on something you know nothing about.

---

Q u o t e:
Also, how could you NOT think that multiple hot streak procs going off at the same time wouldn't be overpowered?

---

If multiple Hot Streak procs were going off at the same time, I would still end up with... drum roll... one Hot Streak buff. They overwrite each other. If Hot Streak procs 3 times simultaneously and I use it, I don't have two more procs in some kind of queue. It doesn't work that way.

---

Q u o t e:
The reason they felt LB ticks proccing Hot Streak was overpowered is that Living Bomb can be placed on multiple targets, which would increase the Hot Streak proc rate.

If you don't agree with that logic, you would need to show some nifty math that shows Hot Streak not proccing notable more or something along that line.

---

No, it doesn't increase the Hot Streak proc rate. Proc rate is based on your consecutive crit chance. Just because you add more events doesn't mean the proc rate of it increases. What does increase is the possible events for Hot Streak and the total number of spells interacting with each other. I have a much higher chance of seeing a Hot Streak proc amongst 100 casts than I do from 2 casts, but the actual proc rate of Hot Streak is the same amongst those 2 casts as it is amongst 100 casts.

It's like flipping a coin three times and saying, "Well, it landed on heads twice and tails once, so I guess the chance to land on heads is 66.667%" as opposed to flipping it 1 million times and seeing heads come up 502,000 times and tails comes up 498k times -- a 50.2% is much closer to the actual than 66 is, given that there are two possible outcomes.

LB DoT in PvP has about a 30% base crit chance. With Scorch up (unlikely to be on all targets, but it's possible), that's 35%. Factor in a low 5% reduced chance to be crit from resilience to negate this back to 30%. That means we have a 30% chance for the first LB DoT (3 seconds after the initial application of LB) to crit. Now 3 seconds later (6 seconds into it) we have another 30% chance to crit. That means we have a 9% chance to consecutively crit.

What's the chance that every other burst spec out there will unload a hell of a lot of damage? 100% And your chance? 9%

---

Q u o t e:
[quote]With patch 3.2 we mages got buffed and again nerfed, they said muiti LB that procs HS is overpower.

Since that day, we mages asked why its overpower, and no one asnwered. Now if u put a topic about buffing arcane here u got your asnwer.

Im not trying to fish a response from GC. but there is over 2000 replies about this nerf in the 3 separated topics and we still dont know if LB is OP for pvp, pve, etc. I hardly believe its op for pvp because u still die very easy and to the moment u get enoughs lbs in different targets and they proc...you are dead.

I wonder, what is the tradeoff of mages,? We dont have survability, dont have amazing buffs and lose to other pure dps and one or two hybrids, because or mobility is low.

This is lame.



I know this thread is about LB and HS procs and all, but honestly fella? Honestly? A mage saying they have no survivability?

Did you take Blink, Ice Block, Nova, and Invis off your bar or something?

-Dav

---

To be honest Fire Mages really have no survivability.

---

Q u o t e:


Those are all great as well as Mirror image. The difficulty arises when an encounter has consistent and heavy unavoidable aoe damage. Take a look at Ulduar, especially hard modes. With ice block at a 4-5 minute cd, guess which class is the first to go down.

---

I never die!!! I just get tired sometimes..

But really LBs can be pretty mean in packs of fights. But what I find strange is the rogues in my guild still out damage my LBs spam of packs. People tend to forget that if the mob dies we get no aoe and we get no crit chance too.

But if a bomb goes off with a incoming pack. Its usually light out for me if I dont see them inc.

So I really dont see where this is over powered in PvE.

---

Q u o t e:


I never die!!! I just get tired sometimes..

But really LBs can be pretty mean in packs of fights. But what I find strange is the rogues in my guild still out damage my LBs spam of packs. People tend to forget that if the mob dies we get no aoe and we get no crit chance too.

But if a bomb goes off with a incoming pack. Its usually light out for me if I dont see them inc.

So I really dont see where this is over powered in PvE.

---

Fan of Knives is the most overpowered AoE in the game, that's why it out-damages your LBs (which are right alongside hunter, warlock, warrior, shadow priest AoE).

1. The Devs think it was Overpowered... agree or not... they changed it and its not coming back

2. when it was working... I, like all of you, was having a GREAT time LB up multiple mobs and managing DOT times and HS procs... problem is now that I've had time to think about it.... I HATE IT... I was nothing more than a 1 trick pony WARLOCK...

GUYS we need them to remove the multi-target aspect... not for DPS reasons... but for Class reasons..

I play a MAGE... I have a 70 lock i haven't touched since WotlK because in the end I hated the OP vs some classes and playstyle...


My Mage is from the start of WOW (soon to be 5 years old) I've seen every change this class has had...

GOOD or BAD...for all the changes the Mage has had, it is still the class that reminds me of the Original class design..

I can still see the caster I once was.. has there been changes yes.. to ALL the classes.. but my Mage is the one i always fall back to.. because when i think or BRD, or DM, or any instance ... I saw them with my mage first.....

WE should not want a DOT... I know thay will never remove LB... but i have come to hate it...

Arcane needs DPS boost to help with PVE

Frost needs a DPS boost to help with PVP/PVE

Fire needs a change in playstyle... before we spent 85% of our GCD single target nuking... now 1/3 to 1/2 are appling DOTS... we need to stop being some weird aff/demo Lock hybrid and get back to what fire did best... Ramming Fireballs up peoples backsides...

I know GC you guys wont remove LB from fire (i can dream) but at least think about changing it back to single target cast... I'm not even asking for DOT crits to cause HS... I don't care about that...

It is my firm belief that LB change has moved fire Mages too FAR from towards a Lock.

And unlike you I enjoy the change. For one I feel that I am doing damage again. LBs spam only comes into play with packs of mobs. I like the play style. It reminds me of my old days of playing shadow.

Which I miss dearly.

---

Q u o t e:
And unlike you I enjoy the change. For one I feel that I am doing damage again. LBs spam only comes into play with packs of mobs. I like the play style. It reminds me of my old days of playing shadow.

Which I miss dearly.

---

Exactly... it reminds you of another class... not mage...thats my point... we are starting to not feel like mages anymore.

Do not

touch

my Living Bombs.

They are mine.

Thanks.

---

Q u o t e:
Exactly... it reminds you of another class... not mage...thats my point... we are starting to not feel like mages anymore.

---

It doesn't remind me of another class. When Living Bomb explodes in a fiery wonderland, I feel like, "Sweet, this is what Flamestrike should feel like."

I don't see how you are equating mage LB to warlocks. Living Bomb is a single target DoT with an AoE on it. The fact that you can put it on multiple targets just helps make it more AoE viable (and more single target viable on fights where there are multiple "single" targets -- Mimiron, Yogg-Saron, Kologarn, etc.)

Living Bomb is one of the best spells. The problem is that the single target DPS increase was completely necessary with Hot Streak proccing off LB DoT -- if it wasn't, why would they implement it? And they said they removed it because it was "too much" when LBs were on "multiple" targets. This has been debunked by many, many players, myself included, and Blizzard refuses to clarify (hi GC) what they actually meant.

We're all waiting for it to be put back into the game, or for them to increase our single target DPS in another manner. I just want Fire to be a little more viable in PvP. They don't see to want to do that via increasing survivability, so at least give me the slight damage increase that HS on LB DoT was providing.

---

Q u o t e:


It doesn't remind me of another class. When Living Bomb explodes in a fiery wonderland, I feel like, "Sweet, this is what Flamestrike should feel like."

I don't see how you are equating mage LB to warlocks. Living Bomb is a single target DoT with an AoE on it. The fact that you can put it on multiple targets just helps make it more AoE viable (and more single target viable on fights where there are multiple "single" targets -- Mimiron, Yogg-Saron, Kologarn, etc.)

Living Bomb is one of the best spells. The problem is that the single target DPS increase was completely necessary with Hot Streak proccing off LB DoT -- if it wasn't, why would they implement it? And they said they removed it because it was "too much" when LBs were on "multiple" targets. This has been debunked by many, many players, myself included, and Blizzard refuses to clarify (hi GC) what they actually meant.

We're all waiting for it to be put back into the game, or for them to increase our single target DPS in another manner. I just want Fire to be a little more viable in PvP. They don't see to want to do that via increasing survivability, so at least give me the slight damage increase that HS on LB DoT was providing.

---

The single target DPS aspect at top end raids is not what im thinking about.. if the players feels that dps at level is a little low you can post.. I wont agree/disagree because I only do a 10 man a week(small guild) maybe 2...

I'm talking about the playstyle... for years I cast Fireball and things dies... maybe FN > Flamestrike/blizzard combo for mutil mob death... I fealt fine.. VERY MAGE...

Multi-LB... tabtarget/focusmacro mutil casting... DOT timer watching... this Feels like my Lock

I know LB is a Dps boost.. I know multi-LB is a AOE dps boost... and yes they make a nice fiery effect...
but the fact remains that I am starting to not feel Like the Mage... Insert Spriest/Lock kinda play is not why i play mage...

How about if they changed HS to make your next Pyro/Flamestrike instant...this feels mage and helps on AOE pulls?

Mages appear to be very divided on multicast LB from a sheer playstyle standpoint.

I love it, myself. Absolutely wonderful change. It's gotten me back into pvp (and as a fire mage, no less.) Even with the hotfix nerf, I feel 100% more effective in pvp with it. And it makes me a ton more useful on a number of Ulduar fights.

---

Q u o t e:
We think Lava Burst ticks proc'ing Hot Streak was overpowered.

---

Lolwut?

---

Q u o t e:
We think Lava Burst ticks proc'ing Hot Streak was overpowered.

---

Agreed

I do think it is nice that you have clarified that you don't think mage dps is too low. It's incredibly difficult to imagine how you come to this conclusion, but there it is.

Fire PVE AND PVP dps is too low and Frost PVP AND PVE dps is too low and Arcane PVE DPS is too low. The only thing possibly good from a DPS standpoint is Arcane PVP. Every single mage spec has too low of dps.

You've been talking for 10 months about increasing frost DPS to be competitive, you've been talking for a month or two about getting arcane to be viable again, and we now have fire well behind where it needs to be.

---

Q u o t e:


Lolwut?

---

He's probly just tired and made a typo i guess...

---

Q u o t e:
The single target DPS aspect at top end raids is not what im thinking about.. if the players feels that dps at level is a little low you can post.. I wont agree/disagree because I only do a 10 man a week(small guild) maybe 2...

I'm talking about the playstyle... for years I cast Fireball and things dies... maybe FN > Flamestrike/blizzard combo for mutil mob death... I fealt fine.. VERY MAGE...

Multi-LB... tabtarget/focusmacro mutil casting... DOT timer watching... this Feels like my Lock

I know LB is a Dps boost.. I know multi-LB is a AOE dps boost... and yes they make a nice fiery effect...
but the fact remains that I am starting to not feel Like the Mage... Insert Spriest/Lock kinda play is not why i play mage...

How about if they changed HS to make your next Pyro/Flamestrike instant...this feels mage and helps on AOE pulls?

---

Every class has to deal with watching multiple mobs. Nobody says you have to put Living Bomb on every target. That's like saying I should put Scorch on every target. If a target is going to die before 12 seconds is up, I won't put it on them. The fact that against two main targets Living Bomb can explode and AoE both targets, that is something that is unique to Living Bomb and fire mages, because normally an AoE isn't worth casting in a single target rotation, but Living Bomb is, solely because of its DoT. DoTs aren't reserved to shadow priests/warlocks. Surv Hunters have DoTs. Elemental Shamans have DoTs. Moonkins have DoTs.

And Living Bomb is more centered around Hot Streak anyway. You say you cast Fireball and things die -- if you want to spam one spell, play Frost and spam your heart out with Frostbolt. Fire revolves around Living Bomb and Hot Streak.

Living Bomb is key for Hot Streak when the AoE was changed so it could proc Hot Streak. It meant that if the AoE crit against two targets consecutively, you now have a Hot Streak proc. This all revolves it back around to single target DPS. That is why players are asking for LB DoTs to proc Hot Streak again. It's all about single target DPS.

Yet Blizzard has said that they removed it because it was too powerful when LB was on multiple targets. This implies an AoE setting. In an AoE setting, why would I waste a global using Hot Streak when I could use that global on another Living Bomb? And if it's only 3-4 targets we're talking about, then I don't think that's enough DoTs to truly make Hot Streak procs "over powered." In fact, a number of the procs get overwritten.

Did it increase the number of Hot Streaks? Of course it did. But the actual DPS gain wasn't jaw-dropping because instead of casting Fireball or recasting LB, you are casting HS Pyroblast. You're just trading cast times and GCDs for HS Pyroblast.

Blizzard apparently doesn't see this though.