World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Class Q&A Series: Druid

Rakh

< Untamed Dragon Fury >

Jaedenar

320. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/18/2009 08:28:54 PM PDT

Does it strike anyone else odd that the "Balance" talent tree lacks any sense of balance? It almost seems like Blizzard offers these Q&As to make us believe they haven't thought of these ideas already, and plan to act on them, but naturally Blizzard has been up and down each class perhaps neglecting a few specs (WTF is demo?), but simply ensures that only some classes can use every talent tree in pvp and pve (pally and DK). As a Balance druid, I feel entirely outclassed by everything else, they never even mentioned any possible balance changes to balance, thus this tree will continue to go down in fire like other specs that are considered lesser in both PvE and PvP (once again Demo). Talent trees are supposed to allow people to have variety within a singular class, but whats the point when most classes are pigeonholed into one spec?

[ Post edited by Rakh ]

Treeroy

< Nocturne >

Garrosh

321. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/19/2009 02:56:44 PM PDT

Now you need to nerf restoration, and making it a cooldown, well, I'm sorry to say this but the developers are just retarded. Honestly, to rob restoration of it's class mechanic just because you've favored it since pre-bc just, it's not right.

I honestly hold a grudge against blizzard and restoration, you robbed balance druids of cyclone because you favored restoration to the point it's nearly useless. One of the most situational spells we have.

But, to rob restoration of one of it's biggest strengths is honestly stupid. It seems like you're not trying to actually think about the tree or the class for that matter, the devs are taking an easy way out because they are lazy.

Making tree of life form metamorphosis is like robbing shamans of totems, robbing paladins of auras, ect.

Just because you have favored restoration since pre-bc (which you have, as they were the only druid spec that could raid), is ridiculous. Hybrids are known for special mechanics more than other classes, there are other ways to nerf restoration without taking part of their class mechanics away.

And now that im into this take cyclone away from restos and make it require moonkin form to train...I want my old cyclone back...

...damn restos and devs

[ Post edited by Treeroy ]

Nicetroll

Hellscream

322. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 12:36:58 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
It wasn't really avoided, the answer is just something players don't like to hear in that we feel it is okay to have a complex setup for the time being.

Why does "complex setup" have to mean "unfairly screwed" for various encounters (Re: Shred positioning requirement)?

Adeena

< Carnage Crew >

Madoran

323. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 06:27:39 AM PDT

I'm healing. That is my role. I came as heals, not DPS.

I like my tree form how it is, tyvm.

Q u o t e:
Just because you have favored restoration since pre-bc (which you have, as they were the only druid spec that could raid), is ridiculous.

While I admit, you are correct about Resto being the only truly viable end game spec preBC, that was not the case during BC and is certainly not the case now.

PreBC, feral was a joke. It got a major buff in BC. Feral is actually viable as a raiding spec now. I won't say that ferals and crit chickens don't still need some work but they're actually viable now, which is a huge improvement from how they were preBC.

Additionally, you can't simply look at Druids when you say that. PreBC, every class was pretty much pigeonholed into one spec. For example -

Warrior - Prot
Paladin - Holy
Mage - Frost (until Naxx)
Druid - Resto
Shaman - Resto
Priest - Holy
Warlock - Affliction (until Naxx)

I'm not positive on the specs for Rogues and Hunters.

[ Post edited by Adeena ]

Terraes

< Ashes to Ashes >

Shadow Council

324. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 10:09:27 AM PDT

Tree form is a part of restoration. You know Bears, Cats, and Moonkins don't constantly shift to caster form to do other things (battle res/innervate)? If you feel the need to take away treeform maybe you should make druids able to tank in non bear form. The logic doesnt make sense.

Druids give up abilities to do other abilities. Bears give up healing and good dps. Cats give up tanking and casting. Moonkin give up healing and Trees give up damage. It makes sense. We are a class that shifts. We assume a role and excludes other roles unless you shift out.

If you want trees to shift out to cast dps spells make shifting cheaper - don't remove the ability. As for the other healers not shifting to cast their dps spells its part of the design. I play a druid to be able to assume a form.

I also remember the argument that people can't see their armor and items while in tree form. Bears, Cats, and Moonkin can't either. So I don't see that as a valid argument.

Treeroy

< Nocturne >

Garrosh

325. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 11:30:58 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Additionally, you can't simply look at Druids when you say that. PreBC, every class was pretty much pigeonholed into one spec. For example -

Understood, I put in raiding so not many could argue against it. They were favored through tbc too in pvp, I respecced resto and no one could kill me as a flag carrier in wsg, and I was in balance gear. Now they're still the pvp spec, balance and feral have had nerfs that effect them because of restorations success, and they don't ever try to find a good way to nerf restoration on par to other classes. It's always something that affects druids as a whole.

Honestly, I want my cyclone back more than anything. As situational as it used to be, even when it could be dispelled the range was enough to keep me using it.

Skitker

Black Dragonflight

326. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 02:19:11 PM PDT

Good Q and A for the Druid!

Thanks GC.

I've liked Balance since the beginning, even thought it was bad. The improvements to date, make me feel good inside. :) To hear that they may become even more viable is great!

Shifting is fun!

Looking forward to more shifting also!

Alcyon

< Exalted Exiles >

Kul Tiras

327. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 03:04:33 PM PDT

A few thoughts.

-- Resto --
First, the resto spec is fun to play. The way the spells work together is a really good design. You really have to think to use them effectively in PVP or PVE. Making players shift in and out of form wrecks the playability. The idea is just silly.

Tree of Life form is cool. It is one of the best things added to the Druid class. Why you would even consider getting rid of it? Please do not fix what is not broken! Trees rock!

-- Balance PVP --
The only problem with boomkins is they have no counter to stuns. This greatly limits their survivability when you have Rogues and Ret Pally's with so many stuns, CC, and burst damage. I'm sorry but Nature's Grasp and a PVP trinket is not an effective counter.

-- Feral PVP --
Feral burst damage simply isn't good enough. That "complex setup" may work in PVE, but it gets you killed in PVP.

Why is attack power on our PVP gear so gimped??? Spell power isn't gimped on caster classes.

-- Feral Tanks --
Druid tank (and Warrior tank) DPS needs to be buffed. We need better AOE damage and threat generation. Pally and DK tanks do so much more DPS. Heck, I prefer running with Pally tanks myself. All that DPS just speeds up runs.

-- Shifting --
Feral is the only spec that ever did any serious shifting. Back in BC (when we actually had mana) you could pop out of bear or cat, get off a Moonfire throw out some HoTs and pop back. Now we are so gimped mana wise you barely have enough mana to shift between cat and bear form.

Balance and Resto specs have never shifted that much. Basically, one shifts out to heal and one shifts to dps. Both shift to travel to run and maybe cat to stealth. That is about it. Cat and bear form are so gimped as to be pretty much worthless for DPS.

To that point, I think it is much more important that a Balance druid DPSes well and that a resto druid heals well than it is for there other forms to be more functional. By making those specs stronger at their role, the druid class is more fun to play. I think that is more important.

That's my $0.02. Sorry it is such a long post.

http://druidshift.blogspot.com

Azreluna

< Children of Elune >

Mannoroth

328. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 04:34:16 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Q: For the official word, do we have plans to update more druid form models at some point in the future?

Ghostcrawler: I know for a fact that the current Travel Form and Aquatic Form are loathed by the artist who redid bear and cat. We do have plans to update additional forms at some point in the future.

Okay, Aquatic Form is pretty goofy, but what's so bad with Travel Form? Looks a lot like a cheetah to me, which (aside from the fact they can maintain the run speed bonus indefinitely) makes a lot of sense.

Enraged Crusher becomes enraged!
You cast Polymorph on Sheep. Sheep is afflicted by Polymorph.

Fix AV: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=4028093362&postId=40025835043&sid=1#0

Doilookfat

< Quintessential >

Kel'Thuzad

329. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 05:53:29 PM PDT

first of all blizz, i dont pvp, so i could care less about a 30% representation in teh current arena season but dont change tree to a half in/half out form. it isnt broke. if i wanted to dps i would spec differently, but i dont. i enjoy healing, it is challenging and fun. i dont find many situation where i need to through down a moonfire, outside of xt heart mode, and even then it is not a problem to shift out and shift back for that small amount of time. i truely cannot think of a situation, pve wise, that a tree will benefit from constant form shifts.

Hungry

< Invictus >

Blackwater Raiders

330. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 07:39:20 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
The Q&A series didn't even hint at an explanation for the only question I'm concerned about.

What is the justification for nerfing every cat form damage ability 10%? I heard the part about skilled players topping DPS chats in "some" boss encounters, but how does that justify severely nerfing their damage for the other 98% of the game? How is it even logical to do to a spec that already struggles for arena representation?

And to get a bit off topic; why, in the name of everything rational, are feral druids the targets for nerfs and ret paladins getting buffed? How could you fight even one decent ret paladin and come away thinking: "that poor bastard needs a buff"? Even before getting nerfed how is cat form supposed to stack up to ret paladins superior burst dps, utilities, and damage mitigation? Thats not even counting that for the comparison to be fair ferals would have to have an invincibility bubble that essentially makes you have to kill them twice.

I have to work my butt off to get the most out of one of the most complex damage rotations in the game to be comparable with other DPS classes. Every battle in PVP is a complex ballance between doing average damage as a wet paper bag or sub par damage as a damage sponge. In other words, I already work for every victory and rank in the DPS charts I get. I'm not overpowered, but there are classes around me who clearly are (read: paladins and deathknights).

For a final Q that will never recieve an A; why us?

Amen! That's the post i was looking for. Thanks for the Q&A fail on feral GC. I've been reading the other Q&A's while waiting specifically for this one and you totally let us down. Up until this point your Q&A's have been very informative and helpful toward the other classes. You really dropped the ball on druids man. Thanks for nothing.

Treeroy

< Nocturne >

Garrosh

331. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/20/2009 11:58:18 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
-- Balance PVP --
The only problem with boomkins is they have no counter to stuns. This greatly limits their survivability when you have Rogues and Ret Pally's with so many stuns, CC, and burst damage. I'm sorry but Nature's Grasp and a PVP trinket is not an effective counter.

I don't think this right to be honest. We aren't as great with mobility as well as eclipse being too easily wasted in pvp, along with no silences/disarms, and we're a little squishy.

They don't have to fix everything but I doubt just giving us another trinket will help.

[ Post edited by Treeroy ]

Anthrhax

Dragonmaw

332. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 02:14:22 AM PDT

Oh wow it's true. Why are all these other threads not locked like the warrior thread?

10 yard gap closer....that limits your speed to 100%...

Densham

< Thrust >

Aman'Thul

333. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 07:18:16 AM PDT

Blizz do NOT take or change tree of life form k. It isnt broken i agree make it so druids can tank out of bear form ...what does not make sense ? no no it does not then leave treeform alone.

Necrosins

< Back Peddling to Gla… >

Cho'gall

334. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 09:32:36 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Q: How do we feel Moonkins are doing in PvP and do we have plans to improve their survivability?

Ghostcrawler: We don’t think Moonkins are quite there yet, though we’ll see how they look after 3.2 ships. Some of their problems are not limitations with the spec so much as they are ramifications in other parts of the PvP environment, such as some classes being able to burst them down too quickly. Of the casters, and as of this writing, only Frost mages really seem to be a potent PvP force, but it requires multiple forms of CC and escape mechanisms to get there. We really don’t want to go down the road of every caster needing that many unique tools – it homogenizes the classes and makes the mage tools less compelling. We understand some players are desperate to play Balance in PvP, but our priority is on getting underperforming classes viable before we worry about the second or third spec of classes that already have a strong PvP presence. We’ll get there.

Moonkin spec should be a priority because it plays a very different roll than healing. I lvled up a Moonkin to play range dps pvp not healing for that reason im not having fun being forced to go resto to get a hi rating. Therefore u should consider Moonkin a class not a optional spec and give it priority. How to buff Moonkin here > http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18031082829&postId=183193215475&sid=1#6
and...
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17779760057&postId=185966827603&sid=1#30

Stuns are the only form of cc that dont have a real full DR or dmg cap. (Fact)

Menohh

< The Knights of Virtu… >

Black Dragonflight

335. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 01:42:21 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
but our priority is on getting underperforming classes viable before we worry about the second or third spec of classes that already have a strong PvP presence. We’ll get there.

Don't you think Balance PvP is already underpowered as it is? I mean to compete with other classes with obviously better PvP Specs (And Druids having 2 DPS specs) Shouldn't you be making Balance a priority? Considering Feral is doing better than Balance at the moment? I agree that Balance PvP isn't IMPOSSIBLE, It just takes more skill than any other class/spec current patch to survive AND EVEN THEN, our survivability is still lesser than other specs. The only possible class I can think of that could POSSIBLY need as much help as Balance does on the PvP Side is Spriests... I rarely see any spriests PvP at 80, and even then... they have a silence and CC.

My point: Balance PvP should be the priority... there aren't that many specs out there that need as much improvement as Balance Druids.

Bornakk

Blizzard Poster

336. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 03:20:26 PM PDT

This took a little longer than expected but I followed up on some of the top concerns I saw while reading through the discussions here and have some updates/further details. Please continue to constructively discuss all aspects of the Druid class and we will aim to provide further updates.

Q: Players feel that the effect of Feral Cat Charge isn’t as good as the Feral Bear Charge yet the cat charge has double the cooldown. What is the reasoning behind the cooldown difference of these two abilities?
A: Feral Charge Bear mirrors warrior Charge (15 sec), while Feral Charge Cat mirrors Shadowstep (30 sec). They are really different abilities. We just had to put them on a shared cooldown to keep the druid from using them back to back.

Q: Are we satisfied with the damage that Shred does without a bleed/mangle effect on the target compared to how much it does with the bleed effect?
A: Shred ultimately needs the bleed requirement and the positional requirements met to make it work optimally. We buffed Mangle to make it a better button in PvP when you can’t get the most out of Shred. But Shred still does great damage when you can use it.

Q: What is the reasoning behind leaving the positional requirement for Shred in the game after removing this requirement from the Rogue ability Mutilate?
A: The analog to Shred is Backstab, which is positional. We like the positional requirement because without it, Shred is just a damage ability, and we think the positional requirement is one of those skill cap issues that lets good Ferals do more damage than mediocre Ferals. Really though, the underlying issue here is that we are happy with Feral damage in PvP. Also remember the secondary benefit of positional requirements, which is that the enemy often needs to keep in movement to keep you from getting behind them.

We don’t think Ferals need to do more damage to be good in PvP. What they need to do is be able to survive (while in cat – they do okay in bear), and the fact that if you’re looking for a melee partner, one who brings Mortal Strike might be more attractive.

Q: Players felt we are not giving much attention to balance and feral druid PvP concerns when their arena success is very limited. Can you give us a more definitive answer on how we feel about these specs in PvP?
A: We wish there were more teams with Feral and Balance druids on them, and wish we saw more Feral and Balance gladiators. In short, we think they are underperforming. The reason we haven’t showered those two specs in PvP buffs are because: A) Druids have a great PvP spec they can use, while hunters and perhaps warlocks and shamans have none. B) A lot of the specs that are underperforming are doing so because they don’t have the ability to chain CC or multiple escape mechanisms. We don’t want to give those to every class. We’d rather change the PvP environment to where those aren’t all necessary. We also want to de-emphasize the 2 vs. 2 bracket and emphasize BGs a lot more so that the entire PvP experience doesn’t come down to the synergy you have with other classes. And again, it’s not necessarily that their abilities don’t cut it – it’s that when you’re putting a team together, a mage or rogue might be more attractive.

Q: What is the reasoning behind allowing Warstomp to be useable in Tree of Life and Moonkin forms (assuming this is correct) but Bear and Cat forms have to shift out to use it?
A: You need to be in a humanoid form to do abilities like Warstomp. Tree of Life and Moonkin (and also things like Shadowform) are considered humanoid. They are bipedal for instance. This is a data construct more than a strict balance reason.

Q: With the changes on the PTR, what forms of interrupts and what forms of stuns do we plan for druids to have in patch 3.2?
A: Maim and Bash are interrupts on monsters. Feral Charge is an interrupt on monsters and players. Maim, Bash and Pounce are all stuns and never interrupt players. The stun itself will often stop the spell, but may not in the case of a Blinking mage.

Monkar

< Slackers >

Lothar

337. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 03:35:35 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Q: Players feel that the effect of Feral Cat Charge isn’t as good as the Feral Bear Charge yet the cat charge has double the cooldown. What is the reasoning behind the cooldown difference of these two abilities?
A: Feral Charge Bear mirrors warrior Charge (15 sec), while Feral Charge Cat mirrors Shadowstep (30 sec). They are really different abilities. We just had to put them on a shared cooldown to keep the druid from using them back to back.

Shadowstep
10 Energy 25 yd range
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Attempts to step through the shadows and reappear behind your enemy and increases movement speed by 70% for 3 sec. The damage of your next ability is increased by 20% and the threat caused is reduced by 50%. Lasts 10 sec.

Feral Charge - Cat
10 Energy 8 - 25 yd range
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Requires Cat Form
Causes you to leap behind an enemy, dazing them for 3 sec.

Yea. Not the same ability. Having them both be 15 seconds on the same cooldown would OBVIOUSLY be imba.

Sentrus

< Nèw World Order >

Arthas

338. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 04:17:53 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Q: What is the reasoning behind leaving the positional requirement for Shred in the game after removing this requirement from the Rogue ability Mutilate?
A: The analog to Shred is Backstab, which we still haven't gotten around to deleting.

Fixed. And yeah, we have Claw for lowbies so its apples to shinier apples, but... yeah...

[ Post edited by Sentrus ]

Alcyon

< Exalted Exiles >

Kul Tiras

339. Re: Class Q&A Series: Druid 07/21/2009 04:17:55 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
A lot of the specs that are underperforming are doing so because they don’t have the ability to chain CC or multiple escape mechanisms.

Totally agree this is why Ferals and Boomkins do not do as well in PVP.

Death by stun is no fun. And our stuns are too slow to proc or too infrequent to matter.

Q u o t e:

We don’t want to give those to every class. We’d rather change the PvP environment to where those aren’t all necessary. We also want to de-emphasize the 2 vs. 2 bracket and emphasize BGs a lot more so that the entire PvP experience doesn’t come down to the synergy you have with other classes.

So no chain CC for druids. But if we don't need multiple escapes, does that mean we won' t have as much chain CC? I guess I'll believe it when I see it.

http://druidshift.blogspot.com

Forum > Classes > DRUIDS