I am impressed. Thank you Blizz for listening and giving some of what we ask for.

For those QQing about PvP, STOP ALREADY, if you want stats change professions... Engineering is about gimicks and small gear tweaking, not adding +30K crit. Sheesh!

I like the portal for northrend...would love it to be more stable. Maybe a portal to Warsong Hold and Agamand but I will take what i can get. I do the "dangerous place" being the middle of an Alliance city...sigh..makes things interesting.

I enjoy the Jeeves idea...can help the whole raid AND give us our banks. That is stellar....I can leave my tanking offset in the bank and grab it if I need it.

Kudos Blizz...

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Q u o t e:


Three letters: switch to a profession that is meant to give bonuses to DPS classes, instead of whining about one that is meant to be focused on building fun and sometimes useful gadgets. When was engineering about teh madz deepeess anyway? Did I miss that patch?

That is all.

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First, I am not whining. Read my response to yesterday's blue post.

Second, I disagree with the notion that it is acceptable for other professions to have perks that affect DPS that are wholly superior to those provided by engineering. Inscription and jewelcrafting make money AND buff DPS. You are suggesting that it is okay for engineering to provide utility only. I do not see that as being balanced.

Eq. 1. utility + DPS = $ + DPS

Third, where does it say that engineering is the "low-DPS, high utility" profession? In the absence of such a statement, I would assume, as a paying customer, that each of the crafting professions provides a similar overall level of usefulness. Engineering is supposed to provide gadgets and utility (e.g., CC, transport). However, this should not come at the expense of PVE competitiveness.

Good stuff, but I won't get too excited until I actually see these changes on the live servers.

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Q u o t e:


First, I am not whining. Read my response to yesterday's blue post.

Second, I disagree with the notion that it is acceptable for other professions to have perks that affect DPS that are wholly superior to those provided by engineering. Inscription and jewelcrafting make money AND buff DPS. You are suggesting that it is okay for engineering to provide utility only. I do not see that as being balanced.

Eq. 1. utility + DPS = $ + DPS

Third, where does it say that engineering is the "low-DPS, high utility" profession? In the absence of such a statement, I would assume, as a paying customer, that each of the crafting professions provides a similar overall level of usefulness. Engineering is supposed to provide gadgets and utility (e.g., CC, transport). However, this should not come at the expense of PVE competitiveness.

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I didn't say you were whining. That was my '@%#@' response to a senseless post. In tandem with another of your posts, it might make sense, but I didn't check.

I'll try to be more intelligible, less @%#@, and unfortunately, more wordy this time. My problem with your post is that it assumes DPS is the end reason for all professions. Engineering is a profession that has a great deal of utility and fun beyond that of other professions, particularly if you enjoyed the profession while levelling in Classic. Other professions might give you shiny new stats, but nobody else can whip out a grenade or hand out tonk controllers during an extended afk.

Engineering might not add to Raid DPS, but the "utility" of moneymaking is not the same as the "utility" of Engineering. I see it as balanced simply because no other profession gets as many "use" items - it's just farming a schematic, buying the mats to buy yourself a new hat, putting the hat on, then working for tips. Yeah, you make money, but there are other ways to make money in the game now too.

Maybe engineering isn't for powergamers, nor should every profession be that way. The idea behind "optimizing" DPS is that you should be willing to sacrifice other aspects of the game for it. I've never been a DPS, but I would be willing to bet that for many of the DPS out there, there are ways to up your DPS that don't depend on professions. And if you're at that breaking point where it's drop engineering or die, well, you're a min/max'er, and it's time to max.

-----------------------------

"Engineering is a very fun and creative Profession. You can create all kinds of wacky things that are fun to use and also entertain and amaze other players. "

"More than any other Profession, engineering products require several steps to be completed. Most items created by engineers can only be used by engineers. You can sometimes create something you can sell to another engineer."

"Engineering is good for PvP and for a few items useful in raids. " (not sure how true the good for PvP thing is anymore since everything is shut down in arenas... but engineering was awesome in classic bg's and such)

versus alchemy:
"You can sell potions to other players. Build a stack of potions then figure out a good price for them... Some potions will be more popular than others. Everyone likes healing potions! Sell your potions in the auction house. "

versus blacksmithing:
"Blacksmithing is great for Paladins or Warriors, who can use the skill to create their own equipment. It is also good for making money by selling weapons and armor to the classes that can use them."

-------------

I know official description aren't always spot-on, but yes, it does say pretty specifically that you won't be able to create items bought by everyone, and that it creates a couple of items useful in raids. Not that it ups your DPS/healing/tanking abilities, or that it makes profit.

That all said... would I mind increasing engineering's utility even more? No, I would not :-p

But having Engineering buff DPS on par with everyone else, then be able to drop a mailbox just about anytime they want, then throw incap. bombs and have toys and unique pets and a unique flying mount? That would be unbalanced in the other direction, no?

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So it would be balanced for us to gain the same level of dps increase as a jewelcrafter, while being able to shoot bombs, mind control, rocket boot, slowfall, summon vendors, teleport to places via trinkets, use our own private auctioneer, and breathe underwater while all a jewelcrafter can do is cut gems in dalaran, and all a blacksmith can do is build weapons in IF?

Why go any other profession if this was the case? Btw if you are short on cash and your an engineer, go mining. Chances are you picked it up.
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I am not suggesting that engineering should receive a DPS buff equivalent to JC. However, the DPS buff provided by engineering should be on par with those provided by the more representative professions, e.g., enchanting, inscription. I am comfortable with our perk being use on demand. However, the buff should be equal to the ring enchants, shoulders, etc.

No, I do not feel that the frag bombs, mind-control helmet, Northrend teleporter, and Jeeves, in conjunction with the limited ability of engineering to make money, provide an overall benefit equal to the benefits provided by the other professions. Most or all of these devices will have lengthy cooldowns. Further, these gadgets will vary in their usefulness to different classes. As a warlock, I find the CC provided by engineering to be very useful. However, I do not see a handful of CC items on fairly lengthy cooldowns as being equal to +38 spellpower.

Please do not get me wrong. I like the proposed changes to engineering. However, I am stating my perception that I do not see the proposed changes as fully balancing engineering against the other professions. Since the author of yesterday's blue post requested feedback, I do not think my comments are out of line.

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Q u o t e:
However, I am stating my perception that I do not see the proposed changes as fully balancing engineering against the other professions.

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A fair enough perception, and I even think I might agree with you. I just don't think the answer is to be found in increasing our stats bonuses, but in adding in more trinkets, toys, a set of goggles or a cosmetic change to helms to make them look like goggles, and utility items. The aims toward which the new patch notes are a great start.

I see engineering as more of a flavorful, interesting profession instead of one that will be passively useful 24/7. The benefits achieved from engineering are more tangible and interesting than other professions, and it is very difficult to balance "the ability to make cool things" with "a slight stats increase". If they gave us mechagodzilla as a level 80 combat pet, how much DPS, roughly, would the ability to whip out mechagodzilla be worth trading?

I know I'm still a level 74 nublet. But since I will never be a hardcore raider, I'd much rather have the fun things I'm constantly pulling out of my pockets than I would a stats increase.

I feel love from Blizzard now!

Butler repair bot *whistles*

Now they just need to lower part cost for choppers for just engineers

This is a big step forward, but we still have a few reasonable requests I think

#1 - glove tinker with healer appropriate stats (haste tinker is just not very good for almost all healer builds)

#2 - More "Fun" trinkets and pets.

#3 - More goofy in combat items (the whole point of the profession really)

#4 - Seaforium upgrade pattern.

#5 - Goggle upgrades to ilevel 226 using new patterns and orbs from ulduar. (and this time actually make a freaking mail healer version please >.>)

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Q u o t e:
AND YET it still doesn't provide the same DPS level in PvE that other professions do. Also, still no good way to make cash.

If the bombs are usable in arena/pvp, then that'll be something, but otherwise we're still basically in the same spot we've always been: worse than other professions in PvE, Money Making, and PvP. The gadgets are nice, but they hardly compensate for all that.

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IMO, engineering is fine at making money, fine in PvE, and fine in PvP, with no demonstrable loss of DPS.

I'm satisfied with the state of engineering for the first time since vanilla.

Am I the only one not entirely satisfied with the changes? Sure, several of them sound quite useful and will eliminate a lot of the more annoying restrictions currently in place, but none of it is actually *new*. It's really all the same old stuff we've been doing for the past 4 years. Can't they come up with a single new effect to give us?

And why can't we get any pure fun items? Mechagnome pets, a gender-switching gun, a funny costume machine, some cool thing with an awesome unique model or spell effect. Simple things like that would totally fix engineering for me. But they haven't even tried. They're just giving us back things they had previously taken away, and while those things are useful, they're hardly anything I can get very excited about.

I can only hope Jeeves at least gets a unique model. He is described as "handsome" so hopefully that's a sign he will... if he's just another mechagnome though I'll be rather disappointed.

These are decent fixes, but engineering is still lacking when it comes to fun. My fear is that after these changes Blizzard will go right back to ignoring us, leaving the one big problem of staleness unresolved yet again. If this is only the beginning and they've got plans for some truly awesome new things in 3.3 or so then I'll definitely be happy. But with their past behavior, I really can't expect that to be the case.

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Q u o t e:
Hey all,

I've been gathering some feedback from the sticky thread about 3.2 engineering changes and wanted to provide you with a few extra details. Bear in mind again that this information is subject to change during the 3.2 testing process. I'll update the sticky thread with this information in a few moments.

World Enlarger: Cooldown is now 15 minutes, down from 1 hour.

Mind Amplification Dish: A passive bonus of 45 stamina has been added to this tinker.

Nitro Boosts: Passive bonus is now 24 critical strike rating.

Frag Belt: The cooldown is now 6 minutes, down from 10 minutes.

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We love you even more now =D

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Q u o t e:
Hey all,

I've been gathering some feedback from the sticky thread about 3.2 engineering changes and wanted to provide you with a few extra details. Bear in mind again that this information is subject to change during the 3.2 testing process. I'll update the sticky thread with this information in a few moments.

World Enlarger: Cooldown is now 15 minutes, down from 1 hour.

Mind Amplification Dish: A passive bonus of 45 stamina has been added to this tinker.

Nitro Boosts: Passive bonus is now 24 critical strike rating.

Frag Belt: The cooldown is now 6 minutes, down from 10 minutes.

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YES!

24 Crit!

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Q u o t e:
Hey all,

I've been gathering some feedback from the sticky thread about 3.2 engineering changes and wanted to provide you with a few extra details. Bear in mind again that this information is subject to change during the 3.2 testing process. I'll update the sticky thread with this information in a few moments.

World Enlarger: Cooldown is now 15 minutes, down from 1 hour.

Mind Amplification Dish: A passive bonus of 45 stamina has been added to this tinker.

Nitro Boosts: Passive bonus is now 24 critical strike rating.

Frag Belt: The cooldown is now 6 minutes, down from 10 minutes.

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I love you even more

Edit: In a totally platonic kind of way

Edit 2: and thus Patch 3.2 became known as the engineering patch =D

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Q u o t e:
Hey all,

I've been gathering some feedback from the sticky thread about 3.2 engineering changes and wanted to provide you with a few extra details. Bear in mind again that this information is subject to change during the 3.2 testing process. I'll update the sticky thread with this information in a few moments.

World Enlarger: Cooldown is now 15 minutes, down from 1 hour.

Mind Amplification Dish: A passive bonus of 45 stamina has been added to this tinker.

Nitro Boosts: Passive bonus is now 24 critical strike rating.

Frag Belt: The cooldown is now 6 minutes, down from 10 minutes.

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Very interesting, and great change to a very cool but oft underused item because of it's silly CD in the world enlarger.


HOWEVER, because of the limitation of that item in and of itself, is there any plan to allow this profession to be like the others with a specialty, in that it'll allow people to change specs?