World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Most Atrocious GC quote yet....

Thelazon

< insomnias >

Jubei'Thos

60. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/28/2009 06:19:57 AM PDT

Look at the dk nerf threat post in http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18031057677&postId=180294656830&sid=1#7 and the follow ups from everyone afterwards if you want to see some very very unhappy people(me included) at GC for his sometimes obvious knee-jerk responses that seem to prove he's not listening, nor are the developers thinking through what they're doing before the nerf bats are swung with impunity.

He's got a crap job. At the same time, he really shouldn't come off telling the entire community they're relegated to sucking it up and taking it in the backside because the developers created an untenable situation with their design and they only way they can 'fix' the problem is to blast the hell out of a class into uselessness before making a complete rework of their entire system during a major expansion.

Did I mention my other character's a shaman? I rest my case.

Darielle

< is Being Carried >

Tanaris

61. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/28/2009 06:31:47 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

You had to get though hyjal trash to fight the boss too....

Eh, it's true warriors were required for a few fights, but there were several fights where druids were "highly recommened" and pallys were "Bring if you don't want to make it 5 times as hard."

I know there is a difference, but it seems silly to be like "you NEEDed a warrior for progression, but you don't NEED a feral or prot pally!" 'caues really if it's PROGRESSION! like progression on muru/felmyst without a prot pally... you can do it.... but i would almost say you NEEDED one.

I don't know where i'm going any more. I just kinda am tired about hearing that warriors were so awesome and poor ferals, when every good raid had a spot for a feral all the time.

You're making it more complicated than it is.

The point whomever started this line of discussion made was that you simply could not progress without a prot warrior since no matter what people did, no matter how well people played, not matter how much help they got from the rest of the raid etc etc., if you didnt have a spell reflect button you weren't killing RoS for the first time.

If Reliquary had always had post 30% nerf HP, I doubt that person would have made the point.

Loot follows the Law of Inverse Need - The more you need an item, the less likely it is to drop. The corollary is what you need is guaranteed to drop when you are not in the group.

\o/ EmoBear

Aachenbold

< Dwarves of Northrend >

Zangarmarsh

62. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/28/2009 09:58:15 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
I has a tinfoil hat.

We don't typically share our numbers. There are two very important reasons for this, though there are others too.

1) WoW is a game in which both mystery and personal improvement play a huge part. Huge communities have formed around WoW theorycrafting. If we just came out and said "Mages are balanced to do 7200 dps on Hodir" then it takes the fun out of the game for many people. A lot of the desire to experiment and try different things might be squashed out. You can see this in action in the those cases where we do clear something up completely. The conversation just stops.

2) In the rare case that we have posted numbers, the community has tended to attack those numbers rather than looking at the actual problem we're trying to fix or the solution we're trying to implement. They end up just trying to discredit the data set or ask for more and more proof and documentation to convince them that it's legit. Our point of view is that we balance the game the way we think it needs to be balanced. We're absolutely open to your feedback on what we do and how we do it, but we don't want to get into the position where we need to run all of our changes past the community first.

Ty GC. I don't envy your job. Many thanks for your efforts to communicate with the WoW community.

Aachenbold

< Dwarves of Northrend >

Zangarmarsh

63. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/28/2009 10:02:43 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
...At the same time, he really shouldn't come off telling the entire community they're relegated to sucking it up and taking it in the backside.

Dang, he said that?

No.

[ Post edited by Aachenbold ]

Jashiliter

< Tanqueray >

Jubei'Thos

64. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/28/2009 10:26:57 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

I has a coffee mug.

[Not tracked]

I hope it reads "Best LSD ever!"

It's not a nerf to intelligence, it's a buff to stupidity!

Valhein

< Peace Keepers >

Alexstrasza

65. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/29/2009 12:39:15 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Here's why I like this guy. I'm very hot headed, and get angry at the drop of a hat, so GC garners my respect in this area. Yet this guy has 3 forums that fish for his posts and then viciously tear them apart. He has to deal with people insulting him on a daily basis, all while remaining calm and explaining things in a straightforward and honest way. We're pretty lucky that he comes here day after day and actually answers our posts, if I were in his shoes I'd just stay off the forums entirely. The devs for this game offer an unprecendented level of interaction compared to other games, and I kinda feel like we take if for granted.

<3 u GC + team

This. Thanks for putting up with us, your community.

P.s. I don't think we've met, GC. /wave

[ Post edited by Valhein ]

Deydrodrel

Maelstrom

66. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/29/2009 08:14:18 AM PDT

This is without a doubt the biggest SLAP IN THE FACE in the history of the world (of warcraft).

Being a Boomkin is like taking Viagra... You can get the job done and probably pretty fast, but if you walk out in front of a bunch of people they are going to notice and probably kill you.

Earthvader

< Ancient Chinese Secr… >

Aegwynn

67. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/29/2009 01:16:26 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
whats in the coffee mug though?

THATS the question here.

Gin

Rijdite

Jaedenar

68. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/29/2009 04:22:02 PM PDT

I LOVE people that are just hellbent on getting pissed off over -anything-.

It's hi LARIOUS.

Take things out of context, THAT'S HOW THE GROWN UPS DO IT.

[ Post edited by Rijdite ]

I get hit in the face for purples.

Valdranth

< Happy Fun Time Guild >

Mal'Ganis

69. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/29/2009 05:28:53 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Dear angry person, come back and post when you can do so without calling people names. No matter how outraged you are, you must behave like adults on our forums.

Something has always bothered me about these types of quotes.

Your company does not require that you have to actually be an adult to post on these forums. Since you and your company are so concerned about the age group of posters on these forums. Why do you not change it so that only "adults" could post on these forums?

Perhaps it is because any "kid" could easily purchase your game easily from various sources. What I find amusing is that it is no secret that there is a large population of non "kids" that play this game. So a certain "childish" element is naturally going to be found from the community. I would think after paying money every month to just play a video game. Those said "kids" would be quite upset to be unable to post on it's forum because they were not "old" enough.

The only people who are to blame for this "childish" element are yourselves. Your company is more then willing to take money of said children. Yet when you ask for their feedback and you get the response you would naturally expect from kids concerning anything dealing with a video game. You then have the nerve to ask them to behave like "adults". What is even more amusing is that your adults refuse to behave like adults.

Perhaps when you can get the adults to behave like adults. Then you can work on getting the kids to behave like you want them to.

[ Post edited by Valdranth ]

Q u o t e:
"The stats don't show a lack of popularity for shaman, they just show a ridiculous popularity for other classes."

-Tharfor, EU Blue

Cassiira

< Infernal Affairs >

Moonrunner

70. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 01:04:02 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
2) In the rare case that we have posted numbers, the community has tended to attack those numbers rather than looking at the actual problem we're trying to fix or the solution we're trying to implement. They end up just trying to discredit the data set or ask for more and more proof and documentation to convince them that it's legit. Our point of view is that we balance the game the way we think it needs to be balanced. We're absolutely open to your feedback on what we do and how we do it, but we don't want to get into the position where we need to run all of our changes past the community first.

Actually that's not true at all. Most of the time when you post your numbers, they are just that: numbers. For example you posted that Resto Shaman X in Uber Guild Y cast CH 100 times on a hard mode encounter. That's simply a data point, and doesn't say anything about why that data point occurred, or what the proper interpretation of that data point is. People typically respond to stuff like this with reasons why your interpretation of that data is not the best interpretation to be had. And then you freak out and say they are arguing against your data instead of what you imply it's saying about the game.

A lot of AP - Plenty of HR - Tons of Crit - Balls Deep Armor Pen.
Paisy is my forums apprentice. Be less jealous.

Darielle

< is Being Carried >

Tanaris

71. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 08:52:39 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Something has always bothered me about these types of quotes.

Your company does not require that you have to actually be an adult to post on these forums. Since you and your company are so concerned about the age group of posters on these forums. Why do you not change it so that only "adults" could post on these forums?

Perhaps it is because any "kid" could easily purchase your game easily from various sources. What I find amusing is that it is no secret that there is a large population of non "kids" that play this game. So a certain "childish" is naturally going to be found from the community. Which I would think after paying for a video game would be quite upset to be unable to post on it's forum because they were not "old" enough.

The only people who are to blame for this "childish" element are yourselves. Your company is more then willing to take money of said children. Yet when you ask for their feedback and you get the response you would naturally expect from kids concerning anything dealing with a video game. You then have the nerve to ask them to behave like "adults".

Perhaps when you can get the adults to behave like adults. Then you can work on getting the kids to behave like you want them to.

Minors are supposed to be playing with parent supervision or something like that.

Loot follows the Law of Inverse Need - The more you need an item, the less likely it is to drop. The corollary is what you need is guaranteed to drop when you are not in the group.

\o/ EmoBear

Doonie

< Serious Business >

Gnomeregan

72. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 11:49:41 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Excuse me?

no.

It was 100% impossible to progression raid TBC without a warrior tank. You would do fine without a pally or druid.

Excuse me?

no.

Show me a warrior tank the shaman add on fathom lord without as healer saying "zomg he hits too hard" feral ftw
show me a warrior pick up dragonhawk adds against the dragonhawk boss in ZA. pally ftw (that place was not possible without a pally)
show me a warrior tank the mage in gruuls lair. YEA!
show me any boss ONLY a warrior can tank. I gave examples of what a warrior can NOT tank. but you just QQ like a big wiener

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

74. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 12:19:52 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Your company does not require that you have to actually be an adult to post on these forums. Since you and your company are so concerned about the age group of posters on these forums. Why do you not change it so that only "adults" could post on these forums?

There are plenty of younger people who behave better than some of the actual adults that post here.

I think some players are just used to the Internet as the wild west where your anonymity protects you and there is little consequence for insults, flaming or just generally behaving badly. That is not the way people communicate in civilized society if they want to get anything accomplished. That is not the way I suggest you approach the "vendor" at the local market, your co-workers, your boss, your teacher, your friends or your family. If I told a fellow designer that they were an idiot with an agenda just because we disagreed, I would probably be fired.

"Act like adults" is the most concise way I can think to say it.

Q u o t e:
Actually that's not true at all. Most of the time when you post your numbers, they are just that: numbers. For example you posted that Resto Shaman X in Uber Guild Y cast CH 100 times on a hard mode encounter. That's simply a data point, and doesn't say anything about why that data point occurred, or what the proper interpretation of that data point is. People typically respond to stuff like this with reasons why your interpretation of that data is not the best interpretation to be had. And then you freak out and say they are arguing against your data instead of what you imply it's saying about the game.

I picked a data set that was very representative of the kind of thing we are seeing among expert guilds on hard modes. My point was to say "Look, this is what is happening," so the context of our changes would make sense. The community attempted to disprove that the shaman or the guild was good or that somehow the case was not typical of what is happening. At the very least they wanted more details, more evidence, more documentation. In short, they wanted Blizzard to prove that the numbers were true.

This is a natural response, because it's how you respond to other players that come up with numbers. The difference is that we can't be in a position where we are obligated to convince the community to allow us to make changes we feel are necessary. That's just not a process we're going to use for game design. We'll communicate the changes and even try and explain our line of thought and answer a few questions. We might ask you your opinion sometimes. But we're not going to ask your permission, or ultimately we think the quality will suffer.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Guldalman

Drak'thul

75. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 12:36:13 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I think some players are just used to the Internet as the wild west where your anonymity protects you and there is little consequence for insults, flaming or just generally behaving badly.

John Gabriel's Greater Internet @##!wad theory

Penny Arcade for those of you unaware

Success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.

-Winston Churchill

Garrex

< Brothers of the Fall… >

Moon Guard

76. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 12:54:01 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

I has a coffee mug.

[Not tracked]

I lol'ed so hard.

Solution to warriors: http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/spiderhound/WoW/theanswer.jpg

Credit to Erasmus(Tanaris server)

Aldariana

< Nine Princes >

Feathermoon

77. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 01:22:53 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I picked a data set that was very representative of the kind of thing we are seeing among expert guilds on hard modes. My point was to say "Look, this is what is happening," so the context of our changes would make sense. The community attempted to disprove that the shaman or the guild was good or that somehow the case was not typical of what is happening. At the very least they wanted more details, more evidence, more documentation. In short, they wanted Blizzard to prove that the numbers were true.

That's not the only reason people ask for more numbers, and its a disservice to the community to think it is. People want more information for a lot of reasons, and while yes there are a lot of people out there who just want to nitpick at Blizzards numbers when they post them, there are also a lot of people who want more information so they can wrap their head around exactly what those numbers say. The chain heal example is actually pretty good for this. You posted that breakdown but gave no more information on what fight it was one, whether it was a hard mode or not, etc. That means that half the information you were trying to convey was missing, and ultimately made your numbers no more useful than someone else who posts anecdotal evidence supporting why class X sucks. If I posted random set of numbers from fight X to prove a point about warriors being underwhelming, but didn't provide any other data about the encounter, you'd have no idea of the context that they happened in, and likely wouldn't take them very seriously at all. Why should we be any different.

Bronco

Vashj

78. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 01:56:35 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

your anonymity protects you and there is little consequence

Ooohhhh GC the tuff guy. 'Wild West' huh?
Protects him from what<--------------------? From what would he need protection from?

Resonance

< unemployed >

Shadowmoon

79. Re: Most Atrocious GC quote yet.... 06/30/2009 02:16:30 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Something has always bothered me about these types of quotes.

Your company does not require that you have to actually be an adult to post on these forums. Since you and your company are so concerned about the age group of posters on these forums. Why do you not change it so that only "adults" could post on these forums?

Perhaps it is because any "kid" could easily purchase your game easily from various sources. What I find amusing is that it is no secret that there is a large population of non "kids" that play this game. So a certain "childish" element is naturally going to be found from the community. I would think after paying money every month to just play a video game. Those said "kids" would be quite upset to be unable to post on it's forum because they were not "old" enough.

The only people who are to blame for this "childish" element are yourselves. Your company is more then willing to take money of said children. Yet when you ask for their feedback and you get the response you would naturally expect from kids concerning anything dealing with a video game. You then have the nerve to ask them to behave like "adults". What is even more amusing is that your adults refuse to behave like adults.

Perhaps when you can get the adults to behave like adults. Then you can work on getting the kids to behave like you want them to.

WoW and its two expansions have all been rated Teen (or its equivalent in other countries) when they hit the store shelves. Even pre-teens are expected to "act like adults" in their interactions with other people by then. After all, the phrase is only a simplistic description of not being rude/vulgar/name-calling/etc. It doesn't literally mean being an adult who also has to deal with bills/jobs/etc.

Forum > CLASS ROLES > TANKING