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Q u o t e:



Ditto, We as the tanking community saw their was a problem with DK's being OP

HOWEVER I still don't find the way they fix that justified. They just butchered us and now I face being replaced. This is why i act aggressively I really don't want to start making new friends all over in a new guild :/ I can't stand being a DPS :/

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*has a grammer fit of rage*

"their" - Its still PTR, THEIR minds are not made up yet.

"they're" - Its still PTR, THEY'RE bound to change things still.

"there" - Its still PTR, its not done, but it will get THERE.


On the matter at hand, are they really your friends if they just replace you like that? With friends like that.....

I don't think the changes are anything that makes DK tanking impossible. In fact, with the changes to professions and epic gems I will be very near where I am on live. Are the changes over the top, perhaps they are. Are they game breaking, no, they are not. The verdict is still out for this one, honestly. Its much too early to tell how the DK tanking is going in PTR. Wait until we start seeing some more numbers.

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Q u o t e:
"My original comment was more in jest towards the person who felt warriors should be used to disappointment even though they have been a dominant PvP, PvE and tanking spec for 4 or more years. That doesn't mean it's the warriors' turn to be bad, but the complaint rang a little hollow. "

This was the one I found to be the worst. I dinged my first 80 which was of course this guy 3 weeks before LK came out. I first started playing when I saw how fun bgs looked since they looked fun with the kind of ffa feel of halo but more inteaction and depth. I twinked awhile at 60 then shot up to 70 so I could get in some heroics with my buddies. So I go from 60 pvp too 80 pvp having to have to spec as prot ot pvp then no bg rewards. watching a strictly better class at the time anyways fill all the roles I bring. Then having to have to join the biggest failboat of arena if I want any good gear. So does my complaint ring hollow jackass.

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I still <3 you man!

But, uh, only for your commanding shouts and sunders.

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Q u o t e:


I has a coffee mug.

[Not tracked]

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Is there still some gin in that coffee?

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Q u o t e:
We'll probably make a thread where you can post the numbers, but regardless we should be able to find them anywhere on these forums.


At this point you have to wonder if these "developers" really do succumb to QQ instead of objective analysis on substantiated data. Do they really ask us, the players, to tell them whats up with their game?

Honestly, i hope druids get neutered like DK's did, because some of the most intelligent theorycrafters are druids..... All hell would break loose.


/vomit

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Why are you so pissy about them planning on making a thread to post player's testing results?

And if developers succumbed to QQ, you'd see a lot of warriors sporting 80k HP right now, several classes doing 15k DPS, and arena matches could never end because everyone would be immortal.

70% of QQ is QQ based on the assumption "I am the greatest player of all time, if someone else is better than me, it's because their class is broken," 20% of QQ is just trolls looking to ruffle feathers, 5% is people misquoting/misinterpreting Blue quotes because they want to be mad at something, and 5% is actually well thought out QQ of problems that do exist.

Guess where your QQ of "They want our numbers, wtf?" falls into?

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Q u o t e:
Honestly, i hope druids get neutered like DK's did

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Everyone should get Neutered though.

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Q u o t e:
This was the one I found to be the worst. I dinged my first 80 which was of course this guy 3 weeks before LK came out. I first started playing when I saw how fun bgs looked since they looked fun with the kind of ffa feel of halo but more inteaction and depth. I twinked awhile at 60 then shot up to 70 so I could get in some heroics with my buddies. So I go from 60 pvp too 80 pvp having to have to spec as prot ot pvp then no bg rewards. watching a strictly better class at the time anyways fill all the roles I bring. Then having to have to join the biggest failboat of arena if I want any good gear. So does my complaint ring hollow jackass.

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You should probably read what he was responding to before complaining about his answer. The person he was responding to claimed warriors were being ignored 'again' and had always been awful. GC's response was basically "Uh, that's not even close to true" albeit in a more tactful form. It didn't mean that there hadn't been problems since the expansion started, or that they weren't going to fix them. If those kind of things make you as angry as your post makes you sound, you should reconsider playing any MMO game since that kind of thing is bound to happen.

I know when I read it I almost vomited.

ALSO FIRST YEAH

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Q u o t e:


Yes. Exactly. This kind of thing is often the result of a poster reading a quote of mine, typically on another website, without the benefit of the whole conversation. The poster said “warriors should be used to disappointment.” Warriors have at times been the best tank, higher dps than rogues or warlocks, and a very dangerous force in PvP. I can respect it if you think warriors are currently underpowered. I won’t tease you for that viewpoiunt. But when you try to make your situation sound more dire by claiming warriors have always been in that case, then I call a little bit of you know what. :)

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Ok true story Warriors have always had a niche in most aspects of the game.

We were the best tank only once and that was pre-BC before the new and "improved" way of looking at classes, I'm talking about a time period where shammies-pallies-druids were hybrids and rest were pures. So of course we were the best tank; we were the pure tank class.

PVP we have always had are niche, put us in a big 2hander and a great healer and we can be a force to deal with.

PVE DPS has always been that if we have top gear we can be the best or damn close to it...

The problem is this you made a class that the niche it fills was filled; that does EVERYTHING we do better without are niche flaws...

Flaws-

Tank - no longer niches we are all supposed to be equal but our niche was good cooldowns for quite awhile / they have better cooldowns.

PVP - we need a healer plain and simple to be good / they can heal themselves

PVE - we need the best gear to be making those numbers/ they can produce better numbers in even lesser gear

No wai it was When GC said AND I QOUTEZ!

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Q u o t e:

operating procedure is not to nerf them (Dks) until they are 10% of all characters.

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DKs are never gonna get a nerf! not at least until they are 10% of all characters!

Am i does it rite?

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Q u o t e:
We don't typically share our numbers. There are two very important reasons for this, though there are others too.

1) WoW is a game in which both mystery and personal improvement play a huge part. Huge communities have formed around WoW theorycrafting. If we just came out and said "Mages are balanced to do 7200 dps on Hodir" then it takes the fun out of the game for many people. A lot of the desire to experiment and try different things might be squashed out. You can see this in action in the those cases where we do clear something up completely. The conversation just stops.

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I agree w/ #1 for the most part... personally I love messing around w/ Landsouls dps spreadsheet to figure out max potential dps (naturally it changes).

However I would love to see more "this should be an approximate 5%" dps upgrade for changes like the Bloodthirst change (btw you REALLY need to look at Bloodsurge... i can hardly ever fit Slam's in). I know this is the Tanking forum but I think you're aware Fury would love to know where we're supposed to be, and many members of the community would love to know why you dont feel that DK single target isnt too high (it is btw ;) )

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Q u o t e:
2) In the rare case that we have posted numbers, the community has tended to attack those numbers rather than looking at the actual problem we're trying to fix or the solution we're trying to implement. They end up just trying to discredit the data set or ask for more and more proof and documentation to convince them that it's legit. Our point of view is that we balance the game the way we think it needs to be balanced. We're absolutely open to your feedback on what we do and how we do it, but we don't want to get into the position where we need to run all of our changes past the community first.

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I think the Rage gen formula & the armor pen formula (although I know there was a lot of confusion around it) went over pretty well and only added to the theorycrafting (or the accuracy of it at least)

This thread made me laugh.

A++

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Q u o t e:
We'll probably make a thread where you can post the numbers, but regardless we should be able to find them anywhere on these forums.


At this point you have to wonder if these "developers" really do succumb to QQ instead of objective analysis on substantiated data. Do they really ask us, the players, to tell them whats up with their game?

Honestly, i hope druids get neutered like DK's did, because some of the most intelligent theorycrafters are druids..... All hell would break loose.


/vomit

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A few things. The thread they are creating, along with the special mob they are putting on the PTR, is for the players not the developers benefit. It's for the players to do whatever and come up with whatever assumptions and hypothesis they can from the date learned from the mob.

Second making a thread on the numbers does not lead to your conclusion that they only listen to QQ. As GC has said maybe a thousand times, community feedback is good (without all the noise) because it gives you an estimation of how the changes went with the community. GC has also said that though they listen to feedback and welcome good feedback they don't design the game around people's wishes and if they did the game would be really wacked up. People usually point out that a lot of people QQ over one issue and all of a sudden that issue went away, while ignoring the fact that sometimes the issue that people were complaining were about needed to be changed and community feedback alerted the developers of said issue. It was up to them then whether to change it.

They aren't asking you to post any numbers. They are making it more convenient for the community to see the numbers and see what the community comes up with it. Blizzard isn't an all knowing God, and people claiming the issue of "Well Blizzard didn't forsee this issue, therefore Blizzard doesn't know it's own game" is a fallacy. They are making the thread to see how the community reacts to the changes, see what it comes up with the changes (because Blizzard is very interested in that). There is a chance that players will come up with something they have never seen before when Blizzard ran it's internal tests, but that doesn't mean all of a sudden that Blizzard doesn't use it's own date to make changes. On the contrary it probably bases almost every decision it has on it's internal data.

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Q u o t e:

Honestly, i hope druids get neutered like DK's did, because some of the most intelligent theorycrafters are druids..... All hell would break loose.

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I don't even want to understand what kind of point your trying to put out.

TL:DR: OP used a quote badly, made horrible conclusions from post, stop misquoting GC to fit personal agenda.

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Q u o t e:
we just came out and said "Mages are balanced to do 7200 dps on Hodir"

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I have to admit it's hard not to make a thread with that quote, then sit back with my own cup of gin and watch.

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Q u o t e:


We were the best tank only once and that was pre-BC before the new and "improved" way of looking at classe

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Excuse me?

no.

It was 100% impossible to progression raid TBC without a warrior tank. You would do fine without a pally or druid.

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Q u o t e:

Ok true story Warriors have always had a niche in most aspects of the game.

We were the best tank only once and that was pre-BC

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The nicest thing I could call that is ridiculously willful ignorance.

Warriors were the ONLY tank pre-BC. Druid and pally tanks were so rare they were YouTube stars. Those classes were strictly inferior to warrior throughout classic, and the challenge was just proving they could tank the content. And even the best of them would give up when they saw how pointless non-warrior tanking was in Naxx 40.

BC raided intentionally punished you if you didn't progress with a warrior main tank. Or did you forget about Kael'thas, Reliquary, Council, and Illidan?

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Q u o t e:

BC raided intentionally punished you if you didn't progress with a warrior main tank. Or did you forget about Kael'thas, Reliquary, Council, and Illidan?

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BC raids also punished you if you didn't have a Druid OT ready to MT the really hard hitters and a pally trash tank.

And they punished you if you didn't have an arms warrior and a SV hunter with an owl.

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Q u o t e:

It was 100% impossible to progression raid TBC without a warrior tank. You would do fine without a pally or druid.

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It was not 100% impossible. pallys did tank illidan.

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Q u o t e:


I has a coffee mug.

[Not tracked]

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But how does the coffee mug make you feel? If you were stranded on a desert island with a dying warrior, would you let him sip gin from your coffee mug? If you were a CEO of a coffee manufacturing company, would you make brown, orange, pink, or red coffee mugs? Wait here, while I get my ink blots...

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Q u o t e:


It was not 100% impossible. pallys did tank illidan.

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and druids didn't till after sunwell gear. and then it was a crapshoot as whether they wiped or succeeded. if RNG was with you, you could down him. if you got unlucky. your ALT dpser logged to his prot warrior and you did the enouter with a warrior.