World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking for

Gnometal

< Dark Skies >

Elune

60. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 04:03:30 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Narrowing the focus of the Q&A, as in the Spriest example, seems to provide more useful information.
The mage question above is a very broad topic, and the very broad answer given was, well, not informative.

I think most people would be much more satisfied with this type of format.

I second this motion. The mage and DK QA's were pretty useless to anybody who has played the class for more than a day. The lock one was getting there, but the Spriest one finally had some substance. Even if that substance was a giant pile of feces that spells "L2P". It's gotta be pretty demoralizing to see that none of your issues will be addressed and core mechanics like MC and DP are misunderstood.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

62. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 04:54:43 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
It should be obvious to even the most casual observer that you'd be doing the community at large a favor by ridding the forums of the incessant trolls and those who refuse to speak in a respectful manner simply because they're not looking someone in th eye.

The true incessant trolls do get banned, often permanently. Other players may post something inflammatory, get a short ban, and then realize they need to approach the conversation as a civil discussion not a drunken brawl. We actually see that happen quite a bit. Regardless, I'm an optimist. Players originally laughed at the idea of having role forums, but months later, they're doing pretty well.

Q u o t e:
I don't mean to be a jerk, and I respect what you do, but the way I see it, we're paying customers. Whether or not our concerns get addressed should not turn on how gracious the least gracious players are. I can just imagine someone saying "You know what? You weren't nice enough, so I'm NOT going to answer your question. Thank you for calling Verizon."

If you cursed the Verizon employee out or threatened to set their house on fire, I don't think they would be that understanding. Regardless, talk to anyone in retail service and they are much more likely to go the extra mile for you if you treat them civilly. You can still disagree with someone without attempting to destroy them. Some people here just don't understand the difference.

In any case, this is not a customer service nor a developer feedback forum. It's a discussion of class mechanics, which is a topic I can contribute to. But if you act like a jerk, I'm not going to feel much like contributing. It's not that hard to understand. :)

Q u o t e:
It sounds like you're asking dissatisfied customers to shut up so people won't be scared off. I'm sorry, but I pay to play and enjoy myself, not to sell more WoW subscriptions. There are some very simple overarching problems with each class. Quit making it sound like it's impossible to please us. The vast majority of the feedback you get from the forum is positive, well written and is backed with real numbers and facts. The only reason I would like to see the negative posts go away is so that you lose your number one excuse for not coming through for your customers. But it takes two to tango. You and the other devs are half of the problem. If you want to focus on the negative feedback and poorly written posts to avoid making much needed and deserved changes, then that's your call. Enjoy.

It's may not be impossible to please everyone, but it's pretty improbable. We learned long ago to make the changes we think are right for the game and not the ones that make the forum posters the happiest.

I also strongly disagree about the majority of the feedback being positive, well written and backed by numbers and facts. Some are backed by numbers, and we appreciate those. Many are not well-written, but we can usually understand the point. That's cool -- eloquence is not mandatory. The hostile flames though, frankly, we just ignore. If you want someone to read your post, especially us, I would word it in a different way.

We value your subscription, absolutely. But that is a subscription to play WoW, not to be able to act however you want on our public forums.

Smart players understand and appreciate that if they point out a problem or limitation in the game that it can lead to an eventual change in the game, assuming we see their point of view and agree with it. The "not a deli" rule still applies. You can't order up whatever changes you want and get upset when you don't get them. You can provide feedback on your experience and make suggestions to improve the game, and we greatly value those.

[Not tracked]

[ Post edited by Ghostcrawler ]

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Raadun

< Team Plano >

Windrunner

63. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 05:10:29 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

The true incessant trolls do get banned, often permanently. Other players may post something inflammatory, get a short ban, and then realize they need to approach the conversation as a civil discussion not a drunken brawl. We actually see that happen quite a bit. Regardless, I'm an optimist. Players originally laughed at the idea of having role forums, but months later, they're doing pretty well.

If you cursed the Verizon employee out or threatened to set their house on fire, I don't think they would be that understanding. Regardless, talk to anyone in retail service and they are much more likely to go the extra mile for you if you treat them civilly. You can still disagree with someone without attempting to destroy them. Some people here just don't understand the difference.

In any case, this is not a customer service nor a developer feedback forum. It's a discussion of class mechanics, which is a topic I can contribute to. But if you act like a jerk, I'm not going to feel much like contributing. It's not that hard to understand. :)

It's may not be impossible to please everyone, but i's pretty improbable. We learned long ago to make the changes we think are right for the game and not the ones that make the forum posters the happiest.

I also strongly disagree about the majority of the feedback being positive, well written and backed by numbers and facts. Some are backed by numbers, and we appreciate those. Many are not well-written, but we can usually understand the point. That's cool -- eloquence is not mandatory. The hostile flames though, frankly, we just ignore. If you want someone to read your post, especially us, I would word it in a different way.

We value your subscription, absolutely. But that is a subscription to play WoW, not to be able to act however you want on our public forums.

Smart players understand and appreciate that if they point out a problem or limitation in the game that it can lead to an eventual change in the game, assuming we see their point of view and agree with it. The "not a deli" rule still applies. You can't order up whatever changes you want and get upset when you don't get them. You can provide feedback on your experience and make suggestions to improve the game, and we greatly value those.

[Not tracked]

Small point my good fellow, by your own word on several occasions you indicate that you are dissatisfied with hunter arena performance.

And yet the changes you make have little or nothing to do with changing what you yourself find to be a problem.

5 seasons of abysmal performance, one of middling performance and a season coming that indicates no major changes to the status quo.

Ball is in your court Jam master crab.

Ave Merda Nova, Similis Merda Seneca

Hokiepokie

< Casually Serious >

Terenas

64. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 05:14:27 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

It's may not be impossible to please everyone, but i's pretty improbable. We learned long ago to make the changes we think are right for the game and not the ones that make the forum posters the happiest.

ANYBODY SEE THAT TYPO!? WHAT IS AN "i's"!?

OMG BLIZZARD HATES MY CLASS!!! DOOMS DAY!!! DOOM DAYS IS COMIN!!!

[Also, Thank You. Ghostcrawler for informing us about stuff :).]

:3 HokiePokie Character Arts:

http://artpad.art.com/gallery/?klvddk1lk5dk

http://artpad.art.com/gallery/?klvelf1l6azw

Lynesca

< Way To Get Racked >

Firetree

65. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 06:45:03 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

It sounds like you're asking dissatisfied customers to shut up so people won't be scared off. I'm sorry, but I pay to play and enjoy myself, not to sell more WoW subscriptions. There are some very simple overarching problems with each class. Quit making it sound like it's impossible to please us. The vast majority of the feedback you get from the forum is positive, well written and is backed with real numbers and facts. The only reason I would like to see the negative posts go away is so that you lose your number one excuse for not coming through for your customers. But it takes two to tango. You and the other devs are half of the problem. If you want to focus on the negative feedback and poorly written posts to avoid making much needed and deserved changes, then that's your call. Enjoy.

-D

I'm gonna go ahead and take the low road for this... because I'm passionate like that...

Maybe if you and your roving band of baddies weren't so terrible, you wouldn't be so dissatisfied.

Your 2s team has 210 wins and 214 losses. Your personal rating is less than 1200. Instead of whining and defending "dissatisfied customers" how about you learn how to play your ******* class first.

(Totally worth it. :D)

[ Post edited by Lynesca ]

Occisor/Doncamilo/Lynesca/Jetheren/Racked/Xemnaroc/Camilo/Typhonicus

Sparcrypt

< The Knights Of Spama… >

Aman'Thul

66. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 07:13:22 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I do want to point out that while many priest replied graciously with something like "Even if I didn't like all of the answers, thanks for stopping by," you also get the following kind of responses, which are the kinds of things that make blues reluctant to respond. Stop doing that and you will probably see more questions answered over time.

1) I can't believe you answered these dumb questions.

2) You guys clearly have no idea how our class works.

3) I can't believe they find X acceptable and aren't buffing us.

4) Well, you finally answered, but that doesn't erase the massive debt you owe us.

Personally I gave up making posts in the hopes of blue responses (ironic as I'm responding to a blue... but I don't expect a response... so why am I posting... ah logic beats me again.. anyway).

Might sound like I think too much of myself but I've made posts in the past asking about issues and putting forth constructed and informed arguments, only to see them drop off the page list and never get a look in.

I put a lot of effort into those posts but I dont think I've ever had a blue response to them.. then I see idiots posting stupid crap, insults, whatever getting blue responses, and not always to lock or ban..

For instance I can recall making a post about leatherworking asking about the current state vs. tailoring in BC (when tailoring was stupidly OP), comparing items and stats etc... I and others bumped it for months without a response. The state of my profession compared to others was a large part of my decision to leave WoW for most of BC.

I've seen other threads about equally valid topics ignored and it just gets depressing. Some of the threads I and others that have been created are indeed addressed later on in a patch and I understand you can't talk about everything (nor would you have the time)... but it does make me much less likely to post as the majority of players who respond to many threads are idiots and trolls, those who make good posts like to see them supported by official posters.

Well off topic, but meh.

[ Post edited by Sparcrypt ]

Meláncholy

Undermine

67. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 07:21:34 PM PDT

I have waited a really long time to get some shadow priest attention, and by normal forum conditions, I should be rude and nasty like most people are. However, I am not going to be. I appreciate that we are not entitled to be coddled and reported to as if we sign your paycheck. If people feel so strongly, then they can speak with their money and cancel their subscription.

Thanks for the info, and I look forward to the priest Q&A. I also heal, and while I mainly am in shadow, I also want to see what's in store for the problems that our other specs have. It's nice that we got some information and clarification, and I appreciate it, even if the self-entitled masses do not.

Can omniscient God who knows the future, find the omnipotence to change his future mind?

Purplecadet

< Blood Nation >

Nathrezim

68. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 08:10:57 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

The true incessant trolls do get banned, often permanently. Other players may post something inflammatory, get a short ban, and then realize they need to approach the conversation as a civil discussion not a drunken brawl. We actually see that happen quite a bit. Regardless, I'm an optimist. Players originally laughed at the idea of having role forums, but months later, they're doing pretty well.

If you cursed the Verizon employee out or threatened to set their house on fire, I don't think they would be that understanding. Regardless, talk to anyone in retail service and they are much more likely to go the extra mile for you if you treat them civilly. You can still disagree with someone without attempting to destroy them. Some people here just don't understand the difference.

In any case, this is not a customer service nor a developer feedback forum. It's a discussion of class mechanics, which is a topic I can contribute to. But if you act like a jerk, I'm not going to feel much like contributing. It's not that hard to understand. :)

It's may not be impossible to please everyone, but i's pretty improbable. We learned long ago to make the changes we think are right for the game and not the ones that make the forum posters the happiest.

I also strongly disagree about the majority of the feedback being positive, well written and backed by numbers and facts. Some are backed by numbers, and we appreciate those. Many are not well-written, but we can usually understand the point. That's cool -- eloquence is not mandatory. The hostile flames though, frankly, we just ignore. If you want someone to read your post, especially us, I would word it in a different way.

We value your subscription, absolutely. But that is a subscription to play WoW, not to be able to act however you want on our public forums.

Smart players understand and appreciate that if they point out a problem or limitation in the game that it can lead to an eventual change in the game, assuming we see their point of view and agree with it. The "not a deli" rule still applies. You can't order up whatever changes you want and get upset when you don't get them. You can provide feedback on your experience and make suggestions to improve the game, and we greatly value those.

[Not tracked]

Man GC you don't need to defend yourself against aggressive people who won't ever be satisfied.

Once again thanks for the feedback man much appreciated you're the man! :D

Llanowar

< Eventually >

Spirestone

69. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 08:53:12 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

It sounds like you're asking dissatisfied customers to shut up so people won't be scared off. I'm sorry, but I pay to play and enjoy myself, not to sell more WoW subscriptions. There are some very simple overarching problems with each class. Quit making it sound like it's impossible to please us. The vast majority of the feedback you get from the forum is positive, well written and is backed with real numbers and facts. The only reason I would like to see the negative posts go away is so that you lose your number one excuse for not coming through for your customers. But it takes two to tango. You and the other devs are half of the problem. If you want to focus on the negative feedback and poorly written posts to avoid making much needed and deserved changes, then that's your call. Enjoy.

-D

Yes, you're paying to play this game but that means you're paying to play this game made by this company and these developers, you don't get to decide how they make their game, you're not paying nearly enough for that. If you don't like the game they made you can stop playing it, that's your right, but that's your only right as a consumer of entertainment products. The mere fact that Blizzard has these forums and listens directly to the feedback of their costumers is more than they're required to and they certainly don't owe us any more than what they're giving.

If people acted in real life the way many do on these forums they'd be shown the door pretty much anywhere. People use the fact that they're paying customers to justify way too much crap around here.
Newsflash: The customer is not always right.

www.positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service

Surter

< Immortality >

Skullcrusher

70. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 08:57:15 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

If you cursed the Verizon employee out or threatened to set their house on fire, I don't think they would be that understanding. Regardless, talk to anyone in retail service and they are much more likely to go the extra mile for you if you treat them civilly. You can still disagree with someone without attempting to destroy them. Some people here just don't understand the difference.

In any case, this is not a customer service nor a developer feedback forum. It's a discussion of class mechanics, which is a topic I can contribute to. But if you act like a jerk, I'm not going to feel much like contributing. It's not that hard to understand. :)

Interesting point. I was not aware people say those kinds of things to you, and if they do, it's unforgivable. I'd hope they would be banned both in game and on the forums, as such a person does not belong in this community.

We know you aren't here to answer our questions, but to design and balance our game. I just believe that seeing what the playerbase thinks is an integral part of that. Some people seem to believe in the infallibility of the devs, that if we don't like the game, we can stop playing. These are the same people who, when I complain about the government or suggest ways it could be improved, reply "Well if you don't like America, then you can just git the hay-uhl out!"

I agree with what you say; I always try to be civil when disagreeing or polite, and if I came off as anything other than that, it was not my intention. It's no fun to address concerns from a jackass, so I try not to be one. Like I said before:

Q u o t e:

There is such a thing as discontent without insult and complaint without discourtesy. Those who can't handle this concept should be dealt with on an individual level.

I still feel that there could be more moderation. Maybe not ban people until we're in candyland, but a bit more discipline around here would be nice for us all. I cringe when I see "@DEVS YOU GUYS SUCK THIS IS RIDICULOUS"

People forget that we're on the same side here. I'm posting feedback with the goal being a positive mage experience in game, and that's what you're working towards. It gets frustrating when the community ideas and the developer ideas clash, but c'est la vie.

[ Post edited by Surter ]

Official President of Skullcrusher, Alliance side.
Officer of <Immortality>
Your Ad Here!

Surter

< Immortality >

Skullcrusher

71. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 09:05:42 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Yes, you're paying to play this game but that means you're paying to play this game made by this company and these developers, you don't get to decide how they make their game, you're not paying nearly enough for that. If you don't like the game they made you can stop playing it, that's your right, but that's your only right as a consumer of entertainment products. The mere fact that Blizzard has these forums and listens directly to the feedback of their costumers is more than they're required to and they certainly don't owe us any more than what they're giving.

If people acted in real life the way many do on these forums they'd be shown the door pretty much anywhere. People use the fact that they're paying customers to justify way too much crap around here.
Newsflash: The customer is not always right.

www.positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service

That's a great article, but any company that flat out ignores the concerns of large numbers of customers is doing bad business. Most of us aren't writing nasty letters about being told to put away a racist hat. We're asking for an improved game experience. Lets say I went to a restaurant and asked for a cheeseburger, then complained when I got a turkey sandwich. The manager comes up to me and says "If you don't want to eat it, then you don' have to order another one. That'll be 14.99." Would I be wrong in asking for/suggesting a change to the menu?

I'm not implying that this is what GC does. I'm merely saying that while the customer is NOT always right, the customer is SOMETIMES right, particularly in a case where the populous does so much theorizing and testing.

[ Post edited by Surter ]

Official President of Skullcrusher, Alliance side.
Officer of <Immortality>
Your Ad Here!

Surter

< Immortality >

Skullcrusher

74. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 09:23:03 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

what was that about mind control?

and your the lead designer?

If you're going to be a jerk, at the very least have a grasp of english beyond first grade.

Official President of Skullcrusher, Alliance side.
Officer of <Immortality>
Your Ad Here!

Chrysostom

< Cataclysm >

Bladefist

75. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 09:27:11 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

what was that about mind control?

and your the lead designer?

There's this cool feature on the forums, it's called the "Blizz Tracker". Check it:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18031081898&sid=1&pageNo=21#402

Q u o t e:
I'm sorry my comment about MC confused people. I have to think of everything in terms of PvP and PvE and I slipped into a PvE answer on a PvP question. It is very potent CC in 5-player dungeons. I don't think it's worthless in PvP, though I admit it's situational.

"Helpful" is my middle name... followed by "Jackass" and preceded by "Un-".

Surter

< Immortality >

Skullcrusher

78. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 09:44:59 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

I didnt capitalize the first words of my sentences.

If you have nothing else to argue except a common intentional grammer error then why bother posting?

You're =/= Your

Official President of Skullcrusher, Alliance side.
Officer of <Immortality>
Your Ad Here!

Mireina

< Ascension >

Moon Guard

79. Re: GC, the Spriest Q&A is what we're looking 07/02/2009 10:38:45 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

I thought your day job was to cater to our every whim. :P

No. It's to have his shiny buzzed head rubbed. <3
...Wait

/Blink
/Blink
/Ponder
...
/Bounce !

Forum > CLASS ROLES > DAMAGE DEALING