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Q u o t e:
lets say a raid boss hits you for 25k, you block, you get hit for 23.5k, get 100 rage with 2 rage on shield specialization, and 100 rage with 5 rage on shield specialization, what's the point of this buff again?

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The change is: Let's say a raid boss swings at you and you avoid (dodge/parry). You get 0 rage currently. With this buff? You get 5 rage.

Huge? No. Is it meant to be huge? No.

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Q u o t e:
what's the point of this buff again?

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Let's say a raid boss swings and you dodge.
Let's say you parry the next attack.
Then you dodge again.
And again.

You now have no rage, your DPS is still going all out, and some adds just spawned. How do you pick up the adds?

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Q u o t e:
In the next (hopefully) PTR build, we are going to try:

Shield Specialization: This warrior talent now provides 5 rage on block, dodge, and parry instead of 2 rage on block.

There might be other changes that we aren't ready to talk about.

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Thank you.


Potential point of concern, however: still doesn't do much in the way of helping the warrior OT'ing issues. That being said, this is a huge improvement over the current situation (as shown by the above poster).

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Q u o t e:


This should be done out of fairness to be honest. I'm hard-pressed to find other abilities that are identical in name and function across classes that are cost different rates.

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Unless I'm wrong the DK equivelent to armored to the teeth is a 5 point talent, ours is 3.

To GC- yes, please, and thank you! 5 rage on a dodge, block, or parry would be a huge step in the right direction. I think this combined with the AP increase from AttT will make a bigger change ( for the better ) than people think.

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Q u o t e:
lets say a raid boss hits you for 25k, you block, you get hit for 23.5k, get 100 rage with 2 rage on shield specialization, and 100 rage with 5 rage on shield specialization, what's the point of this buff again?

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"Shield Specialization: This warrior talent now provides 5 rage on block, dodge, and parry instead of 2 rage on block."

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Q u o t e:
Unless I'm wrong the DK equivelent to armored to the teeth is a 5 point talent, ours is 3.

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Yeah, it's 5.

They don't design individual talents to be the same number of points across classes, they design classes to require the same investment of points to get competitive global effects. It's not about where you're spending each point, it's about what you get after all your points are spent.

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Q u o t e:

I think this combined with the AP increase from AttT will make a bigger change ( for the better ) than people think.

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I think you're wrong there. This was done to balance the fact that the ancestral fortitude type buffs (25% more armour on crit heals) will no longer exist. Therefore all of us will have less armour, which means they had to buff AttT to compensate.

Initial numbers indicate (and I don't have the math to back it up, was napkin math) that you'll actually have a bit less AP after 3.2.

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Q u o t e:


I think you're wrong there. This was done to balance the fact that the ancestral fortitude type buffs (25% more armour on crit heals) will no longer exist. Therefore all of us will have less armour, which means they had to buff AttT to compensate.

Initial numbers indicate (and I don't have the math to back it up, was napkin math) that you'll actually have a bit less AP after 3.2.

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I havn't looked at the math, but i don't see how almost an 80% increase in the effect of the talent can lose to 25% loss in armor.

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Q u o t e:

I havn't looked at the math, but i don't see how almost an 80% increase in the effect of the talent can lose to 25% loss in armor.

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I think it was about a 7k armour increase from AF.

Old:
28k armour = 467ap.
35k armour = 583ap.

New:
28k armour = 778ap.

Ok, I stand corrected. [growls at stupid napkin math, wanders off for more coffee]

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Q u o t e:

If you can't do a ton of dps when not tanking, we are more sympathetic, but still understand that if you do amazing dps in a full tank set up then it makes dps classes look bad.

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Taking this point only, it's not the "do a ton of dps when not tanking" that is a concern, it's "constantly doing significantly lower damage than other tanks even when tanking" that I think is one of the major concerns at the moment.

Being rage starved when not being the tank taking the hits (ie: as an off tank on .. Kologarn, Thorim, Razorscale, .. all bosses you rotate through tanks) does contribute to this, but also Protection Warrior DPS in general seems to be lower than other tanks (at least I've seen this in our raids).

But what about whether warriors will be able to afford it or not?

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Q u o t e:
If it really, really bothers you, you can always dual spec for those fights where you don't have to tank much or at all.

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about that... i don't want to go offtopic, but if you don't have really awesome gear, warrior dps is....


anyway, what if warriors started at 100 rage? and heroic strike was a toggle that increased threat of all your abilities by a % but increased their rage cost.

also, you could take out block value, and change block mechanics and shield slam mechanics to increase in benifit from armor value instead. We have enough stats to worry about...

devastate could use some more bang for its buck. Revenge doesn't become better with gear (actually im not even sure of this 100%, i don't pay attention).

dangit im offtopic again. I should create a store call offtopic and put it next to a hot topic store.

DANGIT

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Q u o t e:
Rage starvation on a raid boss is rarely a big deal except in the first few seconds of the fight.

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Please, GC, go tank General Vezax 40 times as a Warrior in heavy avoidance gear. After that, try Hodir hard mode while your mages and warlocks are stacking 135% crit with 100% haste.

Then, come back here and revise your post. It's ridiculous statements like these that really make us think you are not aware of just how bad the problem is right now.

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Q u o t e:
In response to some of the comments, just remember the goal is not that warriors can ignore their resources and always have enough rage no matter what. You do have a resource bar. It is supposed to count. The goal with this particular change is that improving your tanking gear won't keep making it harder and harder to generate rage, especially when overgearing content. Rage starvation on a raid boss is rarely a big deal except in the first few seconds of the fight.

We don't, unless I'm forgetting something, ever ask you to do a tank transition on a taunt-immune boss, so needing to build up rage for purposes of doing a tank transition shouldn't be a big problem. If you can't do a ton of dps when not tanking, we are more sympathetic, but still understand that if you do amazing dps in a full tank set up then it makes dps classes look bad. If it really, really bothers you, you can always dual spec for those fights where you don't have to tank much or at all.

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We're not asking for unlimited resources. We're asking for equality. I think a lot of us would be a lot happier with managing our resources, slipping in a stray heroic strike here and there while having equal dps while tanking and offtanking to paladins, druids and dks. Currently we have to work our hands off to be sub-par.

We don't want to do amazing DPS in a full tank set up. We want to do Paladin/Druid/DK DPS while tanking or offtanking. That's it.

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Q u o t e:
In response to some of the comments, just remember the goal is not that warriors can ignore their resources and always have enough rage no matter what. You do have a resource bar. It is supposed to count. The goal with this particular change is that improving your tanking gear won't keep making it harder and harder to generate rage, especially when overgearing content. Rage starvation on a raid boss is rarely a big deal except in the first few seconds of the fight.

We don't, unless I'm forgetting something, ever ask you to do a tank transition on a taunt-immune boss, so needing to build up rage for purposes of doing a tank transition shouldn't be a big problem. If you can't do a ton of dps when not tanking, we are more sympathetic, but still understand that if you do amazing dps in a full tank set up then it makes dps classes look bad. If it really, really bothers you, you can always dual spec for those fights where you don't have to tank much or at all.

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Why the double standard between us and other tanking classes, though? It seems like other tanking classes have fixed or infinite tanking resources while we are partial to these avoidance streaks. While this change to shield specialization is a step in the right direction, I do feel like there's a overhaul on rage mechanics due soon (possibly real soon, given the new resilience changes and how warrior PVP is going to be.. fun?)

I don't think any other tank is asking for pure dps competitive damage, so I have no idea where you draw that comparison from. We simply want to do as much damage as the other tanks currently do while tanking. You might say it's not a huge deal and to simply respec, but there's been countless times another tank can DPS and help contribute while ours is paltry in the same scenario. Without getting too anecdotal, I know our recent hard-mode Iron Council kill is a really good example - when a druid gets the overwhelming power they can push insane DPS numbers and help with the very strict DPS requirements for that fight, while we can't. Is it really so much just to be even with the other tanks?

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Q u o t e:
If you can't do a ton of dps when not tanking, we are more sympathetic, but still understand that if you do amazing dps in a full tank set up then it makes dps classes look bad.

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Are warriors really at the point where we have to worry about buffing them because they might do more damage than the dps in blues?

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Q u o t e:

We don't want to do amazing DPS in a full tank set up. We want to do Paladin/Druid/DK DPS while tanking or offtanking. That's it.

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Q u o t e:

We simply want to do as much damage as the other tanks currently do while tanking.

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/support (for what it's worth)

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Q u o t e:
lets say a raid boss hits you for 25k, you block, you get hit for 23.5k, get 100 rage with 2 rage on shield specialization, and 100 rage with 5 rage on shield specialization, what's the point of this buff again?

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Lets say you dodge, then dodge, then parry, then parry, then dodge again, and finally parry an attack. Lets say just maybe you wanted to use an ability in there somewhere. Guess what? Too bad.

I mean, is that a serious post? Your gear seems to indicate you might not be completely retarded, but this post suggests otherwise.

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Q u o t e:
In response to some of the comments, just remember the goal is not that warriors can ignore their resources and always have enough rage no matter what. You do have a resource bar. It is supposed to count. The goal with this particular change is that improving your tanking gear won't keep making it harder and harder to generate rage, especially when overgearing content. Rage starvation on a raid boss is rarely a big deal except in the first few seconds of the fight.

We don't, unless I'm forgetting something, ever ask you to do a tank transition on a taunt-immune boss, so needing to build up rage for purposes of doing a tank transition shouldn't be a big problem. If you can't do a ton of dps when not tanking, we are more sympathetic, but still understand that if you do amazing dps in a full tank set up then it makes dps classes look bad. If it really, really bothers you, you can always dual spec for those fights where you don't have to tank much or at all.

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This.
Post.
Made.
My.
Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/squee

Ghostcrawler, I know a lot of people here are whining (probably for the sake of whining) but I'm going to come right out and say it: thank you. This change will improve warrior way of life so much. I do heroics a lot to help friends and guildmates and in even the harder ones like HoL, 95% of the time I am lucky to have more than 12-13 rage due to avoidance or just not taking a lot of damage in general. This change is just.. waking up to find this post made my day. And night. Chances are, it will make some of tommorow too. :)

Yeah, our damage is low.. yeah, we have other issues. But jesus, people. We look to be getting a SIGNIFICANT buff to our core mechanic. Stop trying to derail this into a "but wut about our dps.. or this.. or that' and try appreciating the fact that should this change go live, rage starvation is DEAD AND GONE. Seriously. We've complained for so long about our rage, asked for so long for some kind of improvement and you know what? We got one. Chances are, other things are being looked at too. So put a sock in the negativity and BE HAPPY FOR WHAT WILL BE ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT BUFFS IN THE HISTORY OF THIS CLASS.

We know for a fact that some of our other issues - Heroic Strike, Block - are also being addressed at some point as well. Things are going to get better for us. Try adjusting your attitudes accordingly.