World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Why are you forcing frost to dual wield?

Alveia

< We Have a Tabard >

Doomhammer

0. Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 05:31:37 PM PDT

Ghostcrawler, you've said in the past that any time dual wield was supported through talents it became superior. And now you are doing just that with 3.2.

I just don't understand.

Q u o t e:
Tears, give me strength!

- Bornakk

Jamarcus

< Trucido >

Alleria

1. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 05:34:39 PM PDT

Rather have it controlled in one tree and giving one mere talent than leaving a ridiculous amount of variables by balancing all 3 trees to have DW capability.

Jabu

Norgannon

2. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 05:34:52 PM PDT

I think that was meant towards DPS, not tanking.

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Ivyroses

< THE ALL MiGHTY >

Suramar

3. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:11:06 PM PDT

Perhaps GC has addressed the logic in needing soooo much hit and practically expertized capped for DW? I doubt it.

Prinsesa

< Paradigm >

Echo Isles

4. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:17:12 PM PDT

The initial design was for DW for it to be (relatively) usable across all three trees, with shallow talents such as Nerves of Cold Steel to support it.

This is similar to how tanking is usable across all three trees, with shallow talents such as Blade Barrier, Toughness and Anticipation to support it.

Apparently Blizzard has since changed their design decision, since balancing DWing across three trees was far too difficult.

I believe they said it'd be better for DW to be limited to a single tree, Frost, than to keep trying to balance DW across all trees and have the useless mess that we have now.

www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Prinsesa
www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Prinsipe
www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Drudenko

Alveia

< We Have a Tabard >

Doomhammer

5. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:27:49 PM PDT

Limit it to some other tree then, I have zero interest in dual wielding.

Q u o t e:
Tears, give me strength!

- Bornakk

Fennecus

Darrowmere

6. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:31:31 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Limit it to some other tree then, I have zero interest in dual wielding.

-.- kay we will get right on that...

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Charsi

< Critical Mass >

Stormrage

7. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:33:04 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Limit it to some other tree then, I have zero interest in dual wielding.

Don't take the talent?

Voltemand

< Razortalons >

Cenarion Circle

8. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:34:18 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Limit it to some other tree then, I have zero interest in dual wielding.

So don't DW? Did you miss the part where it says "New Talent." Is doesn't say "Talent changed to..."

This just in, you don't have to take every talent in your favorite tree! If you don't wanna DW, don't take the two DW talents. Simple as that.

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Alveia

< We Have a Tabard >

Doomhammer

9. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:46:33 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

So don't DW? Did you miss the part where it says "New Talent." Is doesn't say "Talent changed to..."

This just in, you don't have to take every talent in your favorite tree! If you don't wanna DW, don't take the two DW talents. Simple as that.

Cool, you should just not take Hammer of the Righteous. Sure it's amazing for threat, but if you don't want to take it, you don't have to! Why conform!

Q u o t e:
Tears, give me strength!

- Bornakk

Caiya

< Monolith >

Sen'jin

10. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:48:49 PM PDT

You're trying to hard to troll.

Alveia

< We Have a Tabard >

Doomhammer

11. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:51:12 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
You're trying to hard to troll.

Except that I'm not. If they support dual wielding it will become better than 2-hand. You don't have to be any kind of genius to know that.

Q u o t e:
Tears, give me strength!

- Bornakk

Kulasti

< Blacktooth Grin >

The Venture Co

12. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:52:48 PM PDT

Based on the current patch notes for DWing, I don't see it creeping up on 2H Frost yet.

EDIT: The threat gap is mostly cleared up as a result of it, but it'll still lag behind in the Rune Strike department. I think I could see DW/2H being a decent debate, DW could offer slightly higher avoidance or stats and things with two tanking weapons, and 2H could offer higher threat.

[ Post edited by Kulasti ]

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Alveia

< We Have a Tabard >

Doomhammer

13. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 07:53:48 PM PDT

This is the first step in that direction, making strikes hit with both weapons is a pretty big change. The main reason why dual wield wasn't very good was because of strike damage being way lower. This alleviates that problem.

Q u o t e:
Tears, give me strength!

- Bornakk

Prinsipe

< Paradigm >

Echo Isles

14. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 08:13:26 PM PDT

Nothing is stopping you from continuing to use two-handers with Frost, as all of the numbers for Frost's strikes are still balanced around a two-hander.

All the new talent does is add enough damage to those strikes to make them viable with DW, but that doesn't mean two-handing (?) is suddenly going to suck (assuming the Frost Strike nerf isn't crippling).

www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Prinsesa
www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Prinsipe
www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Drudenko

Sargance

< Grim Determination >

Earthen Ring

15. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/18/2009 08:30:00 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Except that I'm not. If they support dual wielding it will become better than 2-hand. You don't have to be any kind of genius to know that.

For DPSing, yes. For tanking? Not so much.

But since the 3.2 changes will pretty much remove the Frost tank from the tanking scene, I guess that works too.

Blues, please move this topic to the Damage Dealing forums, thanks.

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Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

16. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/19/2009 12:35:58 AM PDT

We're already trying to have Blood, Frost and Unholy tanks and Blood, Frost and Unholy PvP builds. Also having Blood, Frost and Unholy dual-wield builds just creates an impossible matrix. You have to support Blood 2H PvP, and Unholy DW tanking, and Frost 2H PvE. It just gets crazy.

Frost might still do okay with 2H. We didn't specifically nerf their 2H abilities. We just gave them a talent to make DW more viable. I don't honestly know how 2H Frost dps stacks up in 3.2 at the moment.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Mileycyrus

< ßenevolencê >

Spinebreaker

17. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/19/2009 12:38:33 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
We're already trying to have Blood, Frost and Unholy tanks and Blood, Frost and Unholy PvP builds. Also having Blood, Frost and Unholy dual-wield builds just creates an impossible matrix. You have to support Blood 2H PvP, and Unholy DW tanking, and Frost 2H PvE. It just gets crazy.

Frost might still do okay with 2H. We didn't specifically nerf their 2H abilities. We just gave them a talent to make DW more viable. I don't honestly know how 2H Frost dps stacks up in 3.2 at the moment.

It's nice to see you in the area. Is it safe to say you wanted to make huge changes and slowly take them away as needed? I'm assuming DK's are not intended to have the lowest tanking stats of all classes and have no block.

Stompem

< Onslaught >

Skullcrusher

18. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/19/2009 12:59:57 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

It's nice to see you in the area. Is it safe to say you wanted to make huge changes and slowly take them away as needed? I'm assuming DK's are not intended to have the lowest tanking stats of all classes and have no block.

No no, that is intended. DKs served their purpose (help run everyone through 5-man heroics, make sure there are enough tanks for all the nub guilds running through naxx) and now are brought back into line where they want them, 2nd rate/off tanks. The exact same thing happened to druids early TBC, buffed up, and then 'oops we didn't forsee', and nerfed way back.

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< Black Phoenix >

Argent Dawn

19. Re: Why are you forcing frost to dual wield? 06/19/2009 01:10:43 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
We're already trying to have Blood, Frost and Unholy tanks and Blood, Frost and Unholy PvP builds. Also having Blood, Frost and Unholy dual-wield builds just creates an impossible matrix. You have to support Blood 2H PvP, and Unholy DW tanking, and Frost 2H PvE. It just gets crazy.

Frost might still do okay with 2H. We didn't specifically nerf their 2H abilities. We just gave them a talent to make DW more viable. I don't honestly know how 2H Frost dps stacks up in 3.2 at the moment.

Any chance that the dual-wield talent will be in the earlier parts of frost to make it slightly viable for non-frost?

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