This is a fact.

First come first serve is still extremely effective while DPSing.

Exorcism? It doesn't matter. Use this macro.

/cast Exorcism
/stopcasting

It'll cast Exorcism if you have Art of War up, and it doesn't reset the swing timer.

Congratulations Retribution Paladins, we can still roll our faces across 5 buttons to do massive damage!

Early phase changes are early phase

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Q u o t e:
This is a fact.

First come first serve is still extremely effective while DPSing.

Exorcism? It doesn't matter. Use this macro.

/cast Exorcism
/stopcasting

It'll cast Exorcism if you have Art of War up, and it doesn't reset the swing timer.

Congratulations Retribution Paladins, we can still roll our faces across 5 buttons to do massive damage!

---

Apparently you didn't read all the blue posts...

GC finally admitted that the spike they didn't like for ret was the upfront, run up to someone and mash buttons BUT that after a fight gets going, Ret becomes much more complicated.

They didn't want to complicate that more, just stop the run around switching to new targets and blowing them up.

And with the very nice buff to FoL on a SS, there WILL be a choice for Art of War. Are you spiking someone or setting up your spike?

It's not a faceroll, stop saying it's a faceroll.

(this is strictly pvp related)

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Q u o t e:
Early phase changes are early phase

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I don't even understand what you are implying. All I said was that Retribution's damage rotation still involves pressing 5 damage dealing buttons as cooldowns come up. This is fact.

Will more changes come? I don't know, but judging by the upcoming changes for Paladins post, everything they mentioned has been included.

I am more excited about maybe taking vengeance and switching it with command for zomgburst.

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Q u o t e:
Apparently you didn't read all the blue posts...

GC finally admitted that the spike they didn't like for ret was the upfront, run up to someone and mash buttons BUT that after a fight gets going, Ret becomes much more complicated.

They didn't want to complicate that more, just stop the run around switching to new targets and blowing them up.

And with the very nice buff to FoL on a SS, there WILL be a choice for Art of War. Are you spiking someone or setting up your spike?

It's not a faceroll, stop saying it's a faceroll.

(this is strictly pvp related)

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That's all fine and dandy, but did anything actually change?

Nope. Five buttons, cooldown restricted.

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Q u o t e:


I don't even understand what you are implying. All I said was that Retribution's damage rotation still involves pressing 5 damage dealing buttons as cooldowns come up. This is fact.

Will more changes come? I don't know, but judging by the upcoming changes for Paladins post, everything they mentioned has been included.

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"Again, these are our current plans and they may change based on testing and feedback. The changes to all three trees are things we are working on right now. Some of them might not work out quite the way we intended and will have to undergo iteration before finally showing up in 3.2. Even once the patch goes live, we are still likely to have to tweak numbers. This is simply a preview of what may yet come and we hope that it will be viewed as such. "

I consider that to be a fairly open clause for moar

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Q u o t e:
Congratulations Retribution Paladins, we can still roll our faces across 5 buttons to do massive damage!

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Not until SoV stacks to 5. No one is going to get hit with a CS + Seal + Melee + Seal for 12k+ damage anymore.

You're right that once we ramp up, we'll be back to dealing a lot of damage. But the "lot of damage" was never the problem, it was the "lot of damage immediately." And unlike backloaded Frost DK damage (which was nerfed), people can dispel the SoV stacks to keep Ret from achieving critical mass since going from 5 --> 4 stacks removes the burst. Besides, they also said:

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Q u o t e:
These changes do not close the door on adding additional attacks, PvP utility or even the oft-requested Crusader Strike debuff. If the changes outlined above finally accomplish the goal of balancing Retribution in PvE and PvP, then we can start exploring those other design issues.

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Q u o t e:
I am more excited about maybe taking vengeance and switching it with command for zomgburst.

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I'm still expecting Command to be the dominant PvP seal. Free crits on stunned/repentanced targets, and you don't need to put 5 points into Holy to get the most out of it.

They said they reduced the amount that Command is Judging for substantially... I'm going to be pretty frustrated if it's hitting for less than a thousand.

Put all of your attacks in one macro, pretend you're sending a telegraph when the enemy is close. That is what earns ret paladins the faceroll distinction.

We weren't in any way under the impression that that fact was going to change when these patch notes hit. In fact, at least in terms of their scope and effect, they were exactly what we were expecting.

How many buttons would you consider enough?

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Q u o t e:
I'm still expecting Command to be the dominant PvP seal. Free crits on stunned/repentanced targets, and you don't need to put 5 points into Holy to get the most out of it.

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I thought one of ret's complaints was that they had a ton of leftover points after getting their essentials with no meaningful place to put those points.

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Q u o t e:
Put all of your attacks in one macro, pretend you're sending a telegraph when the enemy is close. That is what earns ret paladins the faceroll distinction.

We weren't in any way under the impression that that fact was going to change when these patch notes hit. In fact, at least in terms of their scope and effect, they were exactly what we were expecting.

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Damn, I thought we all were under that impression T_T

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Q u o t e:

Not until SoV stacks to 5. No one is going to get hit with a CS + Seal + Melee + Seal for 12k+ damage anymore.

You're right that once we ramp up, we'll be back to dealing a lot of damage. But the "lot of damage" was never the problem, it was the "lot of damage immediately." And unlike backloaded Frost DK damage (which was nerfed), people can dispel the SoV stacks to keep Ret from achieving critical mass since going from 5 --> 4 stacks removes the burst. Besides, they also said:

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I understand what you're saying, but the fact still remains that there really won't be any difference between what we do now and what we will do with 3.2.

And the part about "getting us where we need to be," it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me to say to us... "Hey, we feel you guys are balanced in PvP now, so how about some buffs?" That doesn't make sense. Why would you buff something that's balanced?

More than one?

No, I was just being snide. I'm fine with the one-button system, since most paladins aren't even going to do it that way. I just want the paladin to work hard for their kill, especially if they intend to chase me instead of heal someone else. We shall see whether these changes produce those results.

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Q u o t e:


I thought one of ret's complaints was that they had a ton of leftover points after getting their essentials with no meaningful place to put those points.

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That's in PvE. In PvP we actually have some interesting choices to make in terms of talent distribution. It's sort of nifty in that sense.

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Q u o t e:

Not until SoV stacks to 5. No one is going to get hit with a CS + Seal + Melee + Seal for 12k+ damage anymore.

You're right that once we ramp up, we'll be back to dealing a lot of damage. But the "lot of damage" was never the problem, it was the "lot of damage immediately." And unlike backloaded Frost DK damage (which was nerfed), people can dispel the SoV stacks to keep Ret from achieving critical mass since going from 5 --> 4 stacks removes the burst. Besides, they also said:

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So we are back to having Dispel-capable casters as being required. Awesome. :P

CS will be doing less damage than DS. if you want more damage -and a heal- you will use DS first
If you use exo without AoW proc, you can be interrupted (and you won't be able to get a nice HoT effect that could keep you alive - we have a hard choice to make).
We will be using the new SoCommand. Unlike vengeance it does more damage, don't take time to charge up and can't have it's stacks dispelled (reducing or damage). It's glyph will also return us mana. I am not sure what damage the judgement will do, but depending on it we may have a choice between it or CS.

We will have a lot of choices to make. It will not be as faceroll as it was before. And if they give us more buttons to press the rotation will be too complex to use

The only bad thing about 3.2 changes is that we won't get interrupts.

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Q u o t e:
This is a fact.

First come first serve is still extremely effective while DPSing.

Exorcism? It doesn't matter. Use this macro.

/cast Exorcism
/stopcasting

It'll cast Exorcism if you have Art of War up, and it doesn't reset the swing timer.

Congratulations Retribution Paladins, we can still roll our faces across 5 buttons to do massive damage!

---

To do damage, how many classes press more than 5 buttons to DEAL DAMAGE. In PvP, I press about 35, but most of those buttons are defensive abilities.

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Q u o t e:


To do damage, how many classes press more than 5 buttons to DEAL DAMAGE. In PvP, I press about 35, but most of those buttons are defensive abilities.

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We're still "faceroll", we were never faceroll.

We still lack the offensive utility for other players to stop saying "you're faceroll".