First!

Good changes imo.

Thanks for the info, very helpful for our theorycrafting!

edit: Can you clarify SoC any more? Will procs remain 45% weapon damage, will the judgement autocrit on stunned targets, ect.

Which one would you prefer us to use in PvP and PvE... I know we can make our own conclusions, but what is the dev team aiming for? Finally, do you still want us to be a burst spec and if not, what kind of utility do you envision us bringing?

Thanks.

awesome. Looks like veng/corruption can still be used as tanking seals. :)

Biggest question: Will either seal be able to crit?

Command no longer being Seal of Casino is a good thing, IMO.

Vengeance intrigues me. It means we'll be constantly keeping an additional DoT up to enhance PVE DPS while still having the 1/3rd weapon damage hit after five stacks (which is easy to get up to).

Seal of Command
OLD: Gives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage.

NEW: All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage.

awesome... i love you you gave the detailed version of vengence and this for ret. Now instead of doing 2k burst instantly with my seal i can do 800 due to its now weapon dmg. Thanks for the nerf. Sorry there are some paladins out there that actually can think and realize this is a MASSIVE nerf to our pvp dmg, burst (which makes us competitive)

why remove seal of blood? let us choose to sacrifice our health in order to do dmg

oh and by the way did i mention we also lost survivability to compensate for the dmg nerf? By Art of War proccing only on melee swing crits...Wonderful.

So what will the new SoC's "additional holy damage" be based on?

Is it like SoB or is it like SoR's additional holy damage?

SoB: All melee attacks deal [0.48 * MW] to [0.48 * MW] additional Holy damage
SoR: All melee attacks deal [MWS * (0.022 * AP + 0.044 * SPH)] additional Holy damage.

From Patch Notes:

Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.

Seal of Command: Redesigned. This seal now deals 36% weapon damage on every swing, and deals substantially less judgement damage.

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Q u o t e:
Seal of Command
NEW: All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage.

Seal of Vengeance / Corruption
NEW: Fills the Paladin with holy power, causing attacks to apply Holy Vengeance, which deals additional Holy damage over 15 sec. Holy Vengeance can stack up to 5 times. Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

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Given those changes, I can't understand why a tank would ever want to use Seal of Righteousness.

Seal of Vengeance / Corruption has been the tanking seal since 3.0 came out (I play Horde, maybe alliance were using it even before 3.0). I was confused when the talent preview talked about Seal of Righteousness "remaining" the tanking seal when... it... isn't.

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Q u o t e:
We know it's hard to evaluate the Retribution changes without understanding how the Seals now work. Here is how they work.

Seal of Command
OLD: Gives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage.

NEW: All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage.

Seal of Vengeance / Corruption
OLD: Fills the Paladin with holy power, causing attacks to apply Holy Vengeance which deals additional holy damage over 15 seconds. Holy Vengeance can stack up to 5 times.

NEW: Fills the Paladin with holy power, causing attacks to apply Holy Vengeance, which deals additional Holy damage over 15 sec. Holy Vengeance can stack up to 5 times. Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

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Will the increased duration on seals for wrath of 30mins still be useful by us getting a new ability to keep vengeance up or will we need to seal swap every 15seconds

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Q u o t e:
Thanks for the info, very helpful for our theorycrafting!

edit: Can you clarify SoC any more? Will procs remain 45% weapon damage, will the judgement autocrit on stunned targets, ect.

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Also related to this, will the 1s internal cooldown be removed? Meaning, will the seal be able to hit all four targets of a Divine Storm, much like Blood can now?

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Q u o t e:


Given those changes, I can't understand why a tank would ever want to use Seal of Righteousness.

Seal of Vengeance / Corruption has been the tanking seal since 3.0 came out (I play Horde, maybe alliance were using it even before 3.0). I was confused when the talent preview talked about Seal of Righteousness "remaining" the tanking seal when... it... isn't.

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What this man said... You guys are aware SoR hasn't been the tanking seal since BC right?

Please tell me you are.

Could we get clarification on AoW and Exorcism?

AoW: does it proc on any melee crit, or just non-special white crits?

Exorcism: does it have a cooldown still?

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Q u o t e:


This seems to be a huge AOE nerf to RET, not that Ret's were anywhere near being strong AOE DPS.

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Everything we are getting is a nerf.

Even crusader strike will be a nerf. Same dps from one ability, more cooldown clashes

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Q u o t e:
Seal of Command
OLD: Gives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage.

NEW: All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage.

awesome... i love you you gave the detailed version of vengence and this for ret. Now instead of doing 2k burst instantly with my seal i can do 800 due to its now weapon dmg. Thanks for the nerf. Sorry there are some paladins out there that actually can think and realize this is a MASSIVE nerf to our pvp dmg, burst (which makes us competitive)

why remove seal of blood? let us choose to sacrifice our health in order to do dmg

oh and by the way did i mention we also lost survivability to compensate for the dmg nerf? By Art of War proccing only on melee swing crits...Wonderful.

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Old: QQ
New: QQ more

One the face of it, I think it's a good and fair change. I'll wait to see it in action before I give any real opinion on it though ;)

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Q u o t e:
Could we get clarification on AoW and Exorcism?

AoW: does it proc on any melee crit, or just non-special white crits?

Exorcism: does it have a cooldown still?

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It's hard to evaluate the changes without knowing these as well.

What will the glyphs do now since SoB is no more and SoC always procs?

I have a feeling that in 10 man mana might be bad without the sob glyph. Why does consecration cost so much mana when it cant even crit? Two specs use it and both have 5700 mana