woo. BV buff! i'll have like 30 extra BV now!
i ain't ever dying again~

also the way it's written, it sounds like BoS won't stack with kings, but it might be more than 10%.... that's a guess on my part and not to be taken as fact..

So paladins get an EZMODE version of Last Stand and Demoralizing Shout?

Good effing grief.

The Warrior phase-out continues.


As an aside, why does every other tank class get OUR good abilities, and we get none of theirs?

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Q u o t e:
So paladins get an EZMODE version of Last Stand and Demoralizing Shout?

Good effing grief.

The Warrior phase-out continues.


As an aside, why does every other tank class get OUR good abilities, and we get none of theirs?

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I dunno after 4 years of a more or less broken class they are trying to get it right in all aspects. They over did some and are bringing others up to where they should be.

Warriors more or less are experiencing what we have for a long time. Fun it is not.

The cast time nerf on excorcism kind of bothers me since I use it alot on fights like yogg p3 when mobs are cruising up one at a time.

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Q u o t e:
So paladins get an EZMODE version of Last Stand and Demoralizing Shout?

Good effing grief.

The Warrior phase-out continues.


As an aside, why does every other tank class get OUR good abilities, and we get none of theirs?

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I don't know....I prefer to have Last Stand when I feel like using it.

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Q u o t e:
So paladins get an EZMODE version of Last Stand and Demoralizing Shout?

Good effing grief.

The Warrior phase-out continues.


As an aside, why does every other tank class get OUR good abilities, and we get none of theirs?

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I'd wait till you see the warrior changes before declaring the class phased out.

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Q u o t e:


I dunno after 4 years of a more or less broken class they are trying to get it right in all aspects. They over did some and are bringing others up to where they should be.

Warriors more or less are experiencing what we have for a long time. Fun it is not.

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A. Ret pallies have been broken in various interesting ways for 4 years, arguably.

B. Prot pallies were AWESOME in BC. Hardly broken.

C. Holy pallies are kickass healers.

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Why are they trying so hard to make Sanctuary go into a godly threat gen Blessing to Kings 2.0 ?

Just make Sanctuary a passive debuff that is applied to any blessing you cast and we're there.

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Or just do what they are doing. Works out the same if kings doesn't stack with it.

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And the new Ardent Defender is horribly OP. It's a secondary 12% or + health boost. We'll have 20% more EH than any other tank. I hope it gets readjusted now rather than eating an overnerf later like Leviathan's Coil.

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Well it is a fix that was needed. I am sure they will play with the numbers on the PTR.

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Q u o t e:

Warriors more or less are experiencing what we have for a long time. Fun it is not.

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Right now warriors are pretty much equal to paladins so we know what you are experiencing ;)

You have better mitigation and more HP, we have better CD's.

Built in GS, WotN and Demoralizing Shout.

Why am I not a Paladin, again? Damn i'm jealous.

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Q u o t e:

1 damage can no longer “skip over” the 35% health level – it will always be reduced.

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This is really interesting. I'm presuming that this means that any attack that would bring you below 35% will be reduced no matter what. If that's the case, 35% of a paladin's health just essentially got 30% better, which (as posted above) is another 12% health boost essentially.

And it's worst-case health, which is usually the most valuable.

It's an interesting, if unintuitive way of dealing with paladin balance issues. I don't see this as making them particularly overpowered relative to druids or DKs, but it certainly puts them well over warriors - at least so far. I strongly suspect we'll see big changes to warriors as well.

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Q u o t e:
Currently, we think paladin tanks are almost there and that they just need slightly better cooldowns to handle some of the tougher boss fights. Rather than add a new ability that felt like a clone of another class’s ability, we decided to buff an existing talent that was no longer cutting it. Ardent Defender has two important changes. The first is that the damage can no longer “skip over” the 35% health level – it will always be reduced. Secondly, it has a new effect that if a blow would kill you, it instead sets you to 30% health. This portion of the ability cannot occur more than once every 2 minutes. Think of it as a Last Stand that you don’t have to push.

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Im sorry... but that is completly OP.

WoTN was too powerfull. So it was toned down. It was STILL too powerful, so an Internal Cooldwown as added.

So now, Argent Defender is going to have NO CD, and povide a larger damage reduction thatn WoTN? Thats just stupid. Im sorry but it is. If it no longer is going to be leapfrogged, then it needs to act similarly to WoTN.



Finally, this is NOT like a last stand. Think about it. last stand gives you 30% more HP. Therefore if you had 50k hp, you would have 65k hp. This talent on the other hand, (lets say you had 50k hp as well) would allow you to survive huge hits. Lets say... its a 150,000 damage hit. This will kill all other tanks. Now, the Paly with 50k hp will survive and eb at 15,000 after the hit.


How is that even remotly balanced?

AMS was overpowered becuase it absorbed 75% or 100% magic damage for 5s (normally the huge insta gib hits). It was then nerfed to a % of your HP so that you could not "avoid" things that were not intended to eb avoided.

Now you go and give that exact same thing to paladins.

Im sorry whoever thought of these changes clearly doesnt understand tanks

If Kings won't stack with BoSanc, are you talking about the blessings themselves (you can have only one) or just the stamina portion of it?

EIther way makes no sense... it's obvious they're well aware that Kings is used out there, but they're adding stamina to BoSanc. No way they do this only to have one override the other and be an effective nerf (or such a marginal gain as to be worthless).

I'll bet they stack. it may not be a huge stamina gain, but it'll stack.

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Q u o t e:


A. Ret pallies have been broken in various interesting ways for 4 years, arguably.

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In PVE that have been mostly crap. Arena? Crap. BG? good in vanilla till 1.9 then crap.

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Q u o t e:
B. Prot pallies were AWESOME in BC. Hardly broken.

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Prot pallies were awesome Heroic tanks and good aoe raid tanks (lol). They were crap progression tanks before sunwell. Warriors were flat out better boss tanks period. Druids we arguably ahead as well.

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Q u o t e:
C. Holy pallies are kickass healers.

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Single target FoL healers on tanks. Very good at it, yes, but that's it. They were horrible in raid situations where AoE heals was needed.

Also Prot buffs to be even viable as raid tanks were in 2.2/3 I think (a year into TBC) and Ret was 2.4

WotLK is the first time where Prot really could be considered an all around progression tank. Ret is much the same thing with DPS in PvE. In 2.4 they brought enough to just be worth the spot, but really still didn't stand on their own. Holy was FoL roll face FoL roll face and after season one were only good in 5 vs 5.

Now compare that to warriors who in vanilla were the only tank and 1-3 on the DPS as Fury. In TBC warriors were the main raid tank (druids on some fights), still top 5 DPS as fury (2/3 was common still) easily and Arms was the dominant PvP spec for 4 seasons.

Warrior DPS is now more like the rest of us, Arms is meh in PvP, and Warriors are the 3rd banana tanks (like prot still is atm), sounds a lot like Paladins in TBC.

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Q u o t e:
This is really interesting. I'm presuming that this means that any attack that would bring you below 35% will be reduced no matter what. If that's the case, 35% of a paladin's health just essentially got 30% better, which (as posted above) is another 12% health boost essentially.

And it's worst-case health, which is usually the most valuable.

It's an interesting, if unintuitive way of dealing with paladin balance issues. I don't see this as making them particularly overpowered relative to druids or DKs, but it certainly puts them well over warriors - at least so far. I strongly suspect we'll see big changes to warriors as well.

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Not looking at the last stand./guardian effect at all. paladins needed something like this, it should be interesting.


Just the unleap froggable AD @35% with a automatic 30% reduction will be 2x as good as wotn was pre 3.1. WotN was sited by many people as one of the reason blood DK's were OP'd on the Sarth3d encounter. i really don't get this community sometimes. /facepalm