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Q u o t e:


If you are having issues with too much threat, there are some trinkets out there that can lower your threat level. This change is meant to provide some additional tanking options for warriors who have these strong dps abilities.

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Is there any plan to improve multitarget tanking for these classes? Imp threat to the DPS abilities is a great start, but the rage cost/CD seem like they'd limit the effectiveness of this on multiple mobs.

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Q u o t e:


If you are having issues with too much threat, there are some trinkets out there that can lower your threat level. This change is meant to provide some additional tanking options for warriors who have these strong dps abilities.

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One of those trinkets is on Lady Vashj, the other is on Fankriss in AQ40, the rest are a wasted item slot, sadface.

Unfortunately, Tactical Mastery does not belong in a PvE dps spec and will provide no actual help for any warrior who's going to go out and tank an instance unless they are Arena/BG specced. Thus making it more viable for a pvp warrior to tank pve than a pve warrior to tank pve?

Oh, that's why the Merciless Shield is better than anything pre-t6, understood.

So still having a dps warrior tank an extra add in SSC, KZ, Gruul (HKM), Mag's Lair, whatever, will have no changes what so ever since they would be foolish to spec that way. Great news.

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Q u o t e:


Im well aware of the trinkets and potions implemented by Blizzard. However, im also aware of their effectiveness as im sure you are as well.

The warrior outcry for a threat dump isnt case specific here. Its a class issue that nearly all dps warriors are dealing with. Its because of the fact that it is a class issue that I think it should seriously be looked at by WoW developers.

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How is warrior DPS not competitive without threat dumps?

Until that becomes an answerable question, don't expect much.

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Q u o t e:


If you are having issues with too much threat, there are some trinkets out there that can lower your threat level. This change is meant to provide some additional tanking options for warriors who have these strong dps abilities.

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What if we combine the Tank tree and the DPS tree altogether. Then we could have two other trees for healing and maybe ranged or something like that.

I've always been a prot warrior and accepted the fact that I'll be useless in BG's other than as a flag carrier for WSG or as a tank for AV.

But if you're dead set for making DPS warriors more viable for tanking, how about giving us prot warriors a buff in damage, or maybe increasing our imp defensive stance from 2/4/6% spell resist to 10/20/30% spell resist.

That'd probably be nice.

edit: put the wrong word in.

My theory is you're an idiot and have no idea how threat works

MEETING ADJOURNED

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Q u o t e:


If you are having issues with too much threat, there are some trinkets out there that can lower your threat level. This change is meant to provide some additional tanking options for warriors who have these strong dps abilities.

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Then how come I have never gotten a group as DPS warrior? I have good fury gear and yet all I ever do is get pigeonholed into tanking. The most common response from people when I ask if I can come as DPS is "All you do is DPS and warriors don't have a way to lower their aggro".

Shamans are getting threat reduction? How about warriors? What's the difference?

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Q u o t e:
I have this theory that Sunder Armor actually results in negative threat when your group/raid consists of >>>melee<<< DPS.


When the tank uses the ability Sunder Armor, they are generating a low amount of threat. For the sake of example, we will say it generates 300 threat.

Now, let's say a rogue in dpsing the mob the tank is tanking. That Sunder Armor directly increases the amount of dps the rogue puts out, and therefore directly increases the amount of threat the rogue generates.

My theory is that the rogue generates more threat as a result of a Sunder Armor than the tank does.

Think of it this way (purely for example's sake):
Tank generates +300 threat.
Rogue generates +400 threat.
In this example, the tank generated NEGATIVE threat in relation to the melee DPS.


Here is an example for you visual learners....
Tank Threat Pre-Sunder
====================
Rogue Threat Pre-Sunder
==========
Tank Threat Post-Sunder
========================
Rogue Threat Post-Sunder
=================

As you can see, the tank had twice as much threat as the rogue before the sunder, but now only has about 25% more threat even though the tank's threat also increased.

I have not run any tests on this theory with actual numbers but if anyone has, let me know!

P.S. I am well aware that the armor debuff also affects the threat of the tank's attacks, however I don't believe that this small benefit can be compared to the benefit that melee dps receives.

Post your opinions!

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NO one does the same tanking we did pre-bc, where sunder was king. Blizz decided they want us to use our full range of aggro abilities. I start with a trinketed shield slam, and our best rogue can't pull off me. I only sunder 5 times per fight, then I switch to devastate, also using SS, revenge and heroic stirke/tclap. I think it would be a good idea to research some before posting these misleading threads.

To OP....

Yes, Sunder increases melee/hunter threat relatively to the tank in the long run. Say the tank is doing 60% of his threat by damage. And the rogue is doing 100% of his threat by damage. If Sunder increases damage by 10%... it goes to 66% for the tank, 110% for the rogue.

But the gain to the rogue is small compared to the gain for the tank again MAGIC damage. Casters gain zero from Sunder, so the benefit is 100% in favor of the tank there.

It turns out to be in the tank's favor in most cases, IMO, though it may force the dps warriors/enh. shamans to hold back just a little bit more if they are riding the threat cap.

The same can be said for Battle Shout. If you have melee dps in your group, I'm sure they get more dps out that battle shout than you get threat.... but the Battle Shout is all gain vs. caster dps.

Thunder Clap? Also reduces tank threat in limited rage situtuations because you're now getting 20% less rage from being hit. Demo shout reduces it even more. But staying alive is more important against that hard-hitting raid boss, no? Bottom line, we do what we can to maximize threat, but not at the expense of staying alive. If we have to sacrifice threat for survivability, so be it.... it's not our problem, it's the dps's problem, and they need to adjust their threat accordingling to avoid pulling aggro if they are riding it that close (which they should be).

Honestly with Beserker rage and bloodthirst why do you need tactical mastery? its a waste of a talent point.
if your doing your job effectively you should be getting hit enough that even when switching stances you should be able to manage rage.

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Q u o t e:


I'm sure you are right on this one Skdall, but we've never heard anything suggesting that threat isn't meant to be a limiting factor on DPS warriors. Asking for threat reductions will always be popular, but who doesn't like to be more powerful?

The proposed change to Tactical Mastery would give a huge boost to the mutt DPS/Tanking builds that are all but nonviable today. That is important and not an infringement on the balance of any other class.

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And much more relevant to leveling up as non-protection. Yeah, would be nice at lvl70 to have that option, but it also gives a lot of flexibiltiy to the lvl 62 non-prot who wants run SP, but can't get a group without being protection.

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Q u o t e:
I encourage our dps warriors to help me get 5 sunders on. It's a negligible difference.

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Getting them to actually do it, on the other hand...

(at least in my experience!)

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Q u o t e:


It may also simplify things a bit to when we make Devastate combine the effects of Sunder Armor into it's effect and be affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor. We plan to make this happen in 2.3.

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Sexy?

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Q u o t e:


It may also simplify things a bit to when we make Devastate combine the effects of Sunder Armor into it's effect and be affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor. We plan to make this happen in 2.3.

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You mean to say that devastate will apply sunders?

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Q u o t e:


It may also simplify things a bit to when we make Devastate combine the effects of Sunder Armor into it's effect and be affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor. We plan to make this happen in 2.3.

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I dont know if Bornakk is fairly new or not, but I think I like him.

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Q u o t e:


It may also simplify things a bit to when we make Devastate combine the effects of Sunder Armor into it's effect and be affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor. We plan to make this happen in 2.3.

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Lol, if he wanted to leak a buff to us, why didn't he tell us this first?

We've been begging for this sort of thing for months!

Thanks Bornakk!

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Q u o t e:


It may also simplify things a bit to when we make Devastate combine the effects of Sunder Armor into it's effect and be affected by all talents and items that affect Sunder Armor. We plan to make this happen in 2.3.

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My pants are wet. How am I supposed to stand up at my desk now? And thank you.

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Q u o t e:


You mean to say that devastate will apply sunders?

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That's certainly how it sounds. And it sounds fairly sexy.

The idea to lower DPS to reduce threat is inherently flawed. You want to do as much DPS as possible, just below the threat limit. Purposefully lowering other peoples DPS does not significantely change teh situation because, while they are doing less threat relative to the tank, they are also doing less DPS, making it pointless.