---

Q u o t e:
What if the UFC was like the WOW Arena . . .

Commentator Bob: "That's right folks, it's time for UFC 103 and this is gonna be a fight for the record books."
Commentator Jon: "You got that right, Bob. The last time The Iceman faced off against Rampage it was a quick and painful loss for Chuck Liddell, but he's back for a rematch and there is no doubt that he has been training extra hard for this fight."
Bob: "And here comes The Iceman himself, stepping into the cage. He looks ready for a fight."
Jon: "Now his opponent steps in, Mr. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson himself, and . . . wait, is . . . is he holding a crowbar?"
Bob: "You got that right, Jon. Looks like his weapon of choice for this match is the crowbar. I think it's fair to say we are gonna see some bloodshed tonight."
Jon: "Uh, did I miss something? Why does he get to use a crowbar?"
Bob: "He won the last fight, Jon."
Jon: " . . . and?"
Bob: "And the winner gets rewarded with a upgraded gear. Rampage obviously choose the crowbar . . . not a bad decision if you ask me."
Jon: "Well what weapon does Liddell get to use?"
Bob: "Chuck didn't win the last round, Jon. So he gets to keep using his fists. Unless he wins this fight, of course. Then I'm guessing we will see The Iceman with a new weapon."
Jon: "Why are they getting weapons?"
Bob: "Well we have to give the fighters some incentive to fight, come on Jon . . . try to keep up."
Jon: "What happened to fighting just for the sport and the title of Champion?"
Bob: "Please Jon, titles were removed a while ago . . . didn't you get the patch notes?"
Jon: "Patch?"
Bob: "I mean Match, the Match notes . . . sorry."
Jon: "Regardless, how is this a fair fight?"
Bob: "What do you mean?"
Jon: "How the heII is Liddell supposed to stand any chance against Jackson and his crowbar?"
Bob: "Uhhhh I don't know, maybe a little thing called skill."
Jon: "SKILL????"
Bob: "Ya, and if he doesn't have the skill, maybe Liddell just needs to L2F"
Jon: "L2F? . . . What the heII is L2F?"
Bob: "Learn To Fight, Jon. Come on, buddy. Try to keep up with the new lingo . . . all the little kiddies are using it."
Jon: "ARE YOU CRAZY??? This is supposed to be a sport, on a level playing field, to accurately judge who is the best fighter based on skill."
Bob: "You got that right, and skill is really going to come out tonight. I can just image the buzz on the floors of Vegas . . . get your bets in now folks, this fight could go either way."
Jon: "No . . . no, it's really only going to go one way."
Bob: "Ohhhh folks, I think my fellow comentator here just looked into his magic crystal ball . . . L. O. L."
Jon: "L. O. . . . what? Why are you talking like a retarded 12 year old?"
ding ding
Bob: "And here we go, UFC 103 is underway. These two fighters are sure to . . . OHHHHH, Chuck goes down. Chuck goes down."
Jon: "This is a joke right?"
Bob: "No joke, Jon. Rampage just knocked The Iceman out within the first 5 seconds. This is amazing, I don't think anyone saw this coming."
Jon: "Is he spitting and dancing on Chuck's body?"
Bob: "You got that right, looks like Chuck Liddell should have done some training with Chuck Norris . . . see what I did thar?"
Jon: "Chuck Norris? . . . What does he have to do with this? Are you on drugs? . . . Why is Rampage sitting up and down on Chuck's face?"
Bob: "Don't worry about it, let's see if we can get a word with Rampage . . . Mr. Jackson, congrats on the epic win. What do you think made the biggest difference?"
Rampage: "Skill, this game is all about skill. Liddell just needs to L2F."
Bob: "That's what I said."
Rampage: "I just want everyone to know, I am the greatest fighter of all time . . . and go buy my new 1337 clothing line."
Jon: "So you don't think the crowbar . . . oh, I don't know . . . maybe gave you a little advantage."
Rampage: "Not at all, this game is all about skill. Chuck just needs more skill, and you're just jealous you don't have one . . . go L2F."
Bob: "Ya, G.T.F.O."
Jon: "L2 . . . GTF . . . shut up. You are both MORONS. I'm going over to Pride."
Rampage: "Hey, I've already played in Pride beta, it sucks."
Bob: "Ya, you'll be back."
Rampage: "Can I have your stuff?"
Bob: "Ya . . . 0/10 Jon . . . 0 / 10"

---

Awesome...hehe.

honestly imo the strongest defect in this game at the moment in PvP is the lack of class counter classes. everyone complained about being beat by their class counter so blizzard boosted burst and not health pools as much.

flame me all you want but BC was the most balanced PvP.

---

Q u o t e:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17779590334&pageNo=3&sid=1#47

"we need to develop a way to reward good gear through BGs that isn’t based on endless grinding"

You have got to be kidding me Blizzard, I am 42 years old and make more than $100K per year and run what used to be a very active PVP guild. I have been playing this game for over 4 years now. Please stop treating the PVP community like we are children with short memories, some of us are professionals and ejoy the game just like the rest. I played the beta and posted 100s of times how to design a system of PVP that would allow battlegrounds to be the focus of PVP by only rewarding active players and removing the typical honor grind. However like most of the community PVP suggestions you could care less and stay on your high throne and act as if you just can't figure it out when hundreds if not thousand of your customers have told you exactly how it can be done.

The fact of the matter is you would prefer Arenas to be the primary focus for PVP because they require an extremely low amount of programming resources, unlike creating new battlegrounds with the same frequency you have to create instances to keep the PVE addicts happy. I came to the realization after the beta testing and seeing your lack of responses to us "testing" your game that you would rather PVP just stay in the tiny box you call Arenas.

You could not even "figure out" how to stop Horde from falling off the boat in SoTA when it was random so you just unfairly stuck the Horde on defense starting every game. The truth is all your programmers had already been re-assigned to Ulduar and only fixing PVE issues so you went live without being able to "figure it out". We both know if you had assigned programmers to fix the problem it could have been "figured out". However PVP, especially BGs, are not on your high priority list like PVE is so it was not even considered worth fixing.

So the bottom line is you are not fooling anyone by simply re-stating the same lies every six months. You will ride the gravy train Arena PVP system for as long as you can because it is an extremly low maintence solution to PVP and has NOTHING to do with not being able to come up with a system for battlegrounds. However this being said, when you finally decide to make Battlegrounds the focus for PVP drop me an email (you have my address). I have saved every post and strategy I have ever come up with to help you "figure out" how to fix battlegrounds.

---

This reminds me of a song...something to the effect of ..."Money rules everything around me...dolla, dolla bill ya'll"

Blizz ain't no different then all the other money grubbin' companies out there.

GC says he hates talking like a politician, but he IS one. GC is a senator and Blizz is the congress. All they wanna do is further thier intrests not ours. It's not surpising. They will do like the've been doing for years and tell us what we want to hear, make us think they are going to fix something, and drag it out just long enough to make another buck of of us.

---

Q u o t e:
We have a couple of pretty big changes in mind that will address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, particularly the bullets I laid out earlier. Because of the nature of the changes (they're not just class tweaks), we need to make sure and release the information to all of the regions at once. So I can't just dump the info on you here as much as I would like. :( But keep your eyes open. Should be this week, barring things unforeseen.

---

looking forward to it and hope the weapon issue is addressed specifically.

I know you hear me! ;)

---

Q u o t e:
We have a couple of pretty big changes in mind that will address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, particularly the bullets I laid out earlier. Because of the nature of the changes (they're not just class tweaks), we need to make sure and release the information to all of the regions at once. So I can't just dump the info on you here as much as I would like. :( But keep your eyes open. Should be this week, barring things unforeseen.

---

Hope you guys are working on the real problem, which is Death Knights.

---

Q u o t e:
We have a couple of pretty big changes in mind that will address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, particularly the bullets I laid out earlier. Because of the nature of the changes (they're not just class tweaks), we need to make sure and release the information to all of the regions at once. So I can't just dump the info on you here as much as I would like. :( But keep your eyes open. Should be this week, barring things unforeseen.

---

My hopes, up they will not be.

---

Q u o t e:
We have a couple of pretty big changes in mind that will address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, particularly the bullets I laid out earlier. Because of the nature of the changes (they're not just class tweaks), we need to make sure and release the information to all of the regions at once. So I can't just dump the info on you here as much as I would like. :( But keep your eyes open. Should be this week, barring things unforeseen.

---

Incoming arena aura reducing damage and healing done.

---

Q u o t e:
What if the UFC was like the WOW Arena . . .

Commentator Bob: "That's right folks, it's time for UFC 103 and this is gonna be a fight for the record books."
Commentator Jon: "You got that right, Bob. The last time The Iceman faced off against Rampage it was a quick and painful loss for Chuck Liddell, but he's back for a rematch and there is no doubt that he has been training extra hard for this fight."
Bob: "And here comes The Iceman himself, stepping into the cage. He looks ready for a fight."
Jon: "Now his opponent steps in, Mr. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson himself, and . . . wait, is . . . is he holding a crowbar?"
Bob: "You got that right, Jon. Looks like his weapon of choice for this match is the crowbar. I think it's fair to say we are gonna see some bloodshed tonight."
Jon: "Uh, did I miss something? Why does he get to use a crowbar?"
Bob: "He won the last fight, Jon."
Jon: " . . . and?"
Bob: "And the winner gets rewarded with a upgraded gear. Rampage obviously choose the crowbar . . . not a bad decision if you ask me."
Jon: "Well what weapon does Liddell get to use?"
Bob: "Chuck didn't win the last round, Jon. So he gets to keep using his fists. Unless he wins this fight, of course. Then I'm guessing we will see The Iceman with a new weapon."
Jon: "Why are they getting weapons?"
Bob: "Well we have to give the fighters some incentive to fight, come on Jon . . . try to keep up."
Jon: "What happened to fighting just for the sport and the title of Champion?"
Bob: "Please Jon, titles were removed a while ago . . . didn't you get the patch notes?"
Jon: "Patch?"
Bob: "I mean Match, the Match notes . . . sorry."
Jon: "Regardless, how is this a fair fight?"
Bob: "What do you mean?"
Jon: "How the heII is Liddell supposed to stand any chance against Jackson and his crowbar?"
Bob: "Uhhhh I don't know, maybe a little thing called skill."
Jon: "SKILL????"
Bob: "Ya, and if he doesn't have the skill, maybe Liddell just needs to L2F"
Jon: "L2F? . . . What the heII is L2F?"
Bob: "Learn To Fight, Jon. Come on, buddy. Try to keep up with the new lingo . . . all the little kiddies are using it."
Jon: "ARE YOU CRAZY??? This is supposed to be a sport, on a level playing field, to accurately judge who is the best fighter based on skill."
Bob: "You got that right, and skill is really going to come out tonight. I can just image the buzz on the floors of Vegas . . . get your bets in now folks, this fight could go either way."
Jon: "No . . . no, it's really only going to go one way."
Bob: "Ohhhh folks, I think my fellow comentator here just looked into his magic crystal ball . . . L. O. L."
Jon: "L. O. . . . what? Why are you talking like a retarded 12 year old?"
ding ding
Bob: "And here we go, UFC 103 is underway. These two fighters are sure to . . . OHHHHH, Chuck goes down. Chuck goes down."
Jon: "This is a joke right?"
Bob: "No joke, Jon. Rampage just knocked The Iceman out within the first 5 seconds. This is amazing, I don't think anyone saw this coming."
Jon: "Is he spitting and dancing on Chuck's body?"
Bob: "You got that right, looks like Chuck Liddell should have done some training with Chuck Norris . . . see what I did thar?"
Jon: "Chuck Norris? . . . What does he have to do with this? Are you on drugs? . . . Why is Rampage sitting up and down on Chuck's face?"
Bob: "Don't worry about it, let's see if we can get a word with Rampage . . . Mr. Jackson, congrats on the epic win. What do you think made the biggest difference?"
Rampage: "Skill, this game is all about skill. Liddell just needs to L2F."
Bob: "That's what I said."
Rampage: "I just want everyone to know, I am the greatest fighter of all time . . . and go buy my new 1337 clothing line."
Jon: "So you don't think the crowbar . . . oh, I don't know . . . maybe gave you a little advantage."
Rampage: "Not at all, this game is all about skill. Chuck just needs more skill, and you're just jealous you don't have one . . . go L2F."
Bob: "Ya, G.T.F.O."
Jon: "L2 . . . GTF . . . shut up. You are both MORONS. I'm going over to Pride."
Rampage: "Hey, I've already played in Pride beta, it sucks."
Bob: "Ya, you'll be back."
Rampage: "Can I have your stuff?"
Bob: "Ya . . . 0/10 Jon . . . 0 / 10"

---

Epic beyond my wildest dreams.

GC I hope your aware that buffing shamans and hunters = death to priests. What are you going to do to get shamans and hunters better representation w/o decimating the one class i am dedicated too and the only class i care to ever play?

---

Q u o t e:
What if the UFC was like the WOW Arena . . .

Commentator Bob: "That's right folks, it's time for UFC 103 and this is gonna be a fight for the record books."
Commentator Jon: "You got that right, Bob. The last time The Iceman faced off against Rampage it was a quick and painful loss for Chuck Liddell, but he's back for a rematch and there is no doubt that he has been training extra hard for this fight."
Bob: "And here comes The Iceman himself, stepping into the cage. He looks ready for a fight."
Jon: "Now his opponent steps in, Mr. Quinton "Rampage" Jackson himself, and . . . wait, is . . . is he holding a crowbar?"
Bob: "You got that right, Jon. Looks like his weapon of choice for this match is the crowbar. I think it's fair to say we are gonna see some bloodshed tonight."
Jon: "Uh, did I miss something? Why does he get to use a crowbar?"
Bob: "He won the last fight, Jon."
Jon: " . . . and?"
Bob: "And the winner gets rewarded with a upgraded gear. Rampage obviously choose the crowbar . . . not a bad decision if you ask me."
Jon: "Well what weapon does Liddell get to use?"
Bob: "Chuck didn't win the last round, Jon. So he gets to keep using his fists. Unless he wins this fight, of course. Then I'm guessing we will see The Iceman with a new weapon."
Jon: "Why are they getting weapons?"
Bob: "Well we have to give the fighters some incentive to fight, come on Jon . . . try to keep up."
Jon: "What happened to fighting just for the sport and the title of Champion?"
Bob: "Please Jon, titles were removed a while ago . . . didn't you get the patch notes?"
Jon: "Patch?"
Bob: "I mean Match, the Match notes . . . sorry."
Jon: "Regardless, how is this a fair fight?"
Bob: "What do you mean?"
Jon: "How the heII is Liddell supposed to stand any chance against Jackson and his crowbar?"
Bob: "Uhhhh I don't know, maybe a little thing called skill."
Jon: "SKILL????"
Bob: "Ya, and if he doesn't have the skill, maybe Liddell just needs to L2F"
Jon: "L2F? . . . What the heII is L2F?"
Bob: "Learn To Fight, Jon. Come on, buddy. Try to keep up with the new lingo . . . all the little kiddies are using it."
Jon: "ARE YOU CRAZY??? This is supposed to be a sport, on a level playing field, to accurately judge who is the best fighter based on skill."
Bob: "You got that right, and skill is really going to come out tonight. I can just image the buzz on the floors of Vegas . . . get your bets in now folks, this fight could go either way."
Jon: "No . . . no, it's really only going to go one way."
Bob: "Ohhhh folks, I think my fellow comentator here just looked into his magic crystal ball . . . L. O. L."
Jon: "L. O. . . . what? Why are you talking like a retarded 12 year old?"
ding ding
Bob: "And here we go, UFC 103 is underway. These two fighters are sure to . . . OHHHHH, Chuck goes down. Chuck goes down."
Jon: "This is a joke right?"
Bob: "No joke, Jon. Rampage just knocked The Iceman out within the first 5 seconds. This is amazing, I don't think anyone saw this coming."
Jon: "Is he spitting and dancing on Chuck's body?"
Bob: "You got that right, looks like Chuck Liddell should have done some training with Chuck Norris . . . see what I did thar?"
Jon: "Chuck Norris? . . . What does he have to do with this? Are you on drugs? . . . Why is Rampage sitting up and down on Chuck's face?"
Bob: "Don't worry about it, let's see if we can get a word with Rampage . . . Mr. Jackson, congrats on the epic win. What do you think made the biggest difference?"
Rampage: "Skill, this game is all about skill. Liddell just needs to L2F."
Bob: "That's what I said."
Rampage: "I just want everyone to know, I am the greatest fighter of all time . . . and go buy my new 1337 clothing line."
Jon: "So you don't think the crowbar . . . oh, I don't know . . . maybe gave you a little advantage."
Rampage: "Not at all, this game is all about skill. Chuck just needs more skill, and you're just jealous you don't have one . . . go L2F."
Bob: "Ya, G.T.F.O."
Jon: "L2 . . . GTF . . . shut up. You are both MORONS. I'm going over to Pride."
Rampage: "Hey, I've already played in Pride beta, it sucks."
Bob: "Ya, you'll be back."
Rampage: "Can I have your stuff?"
Bob: "Ya . . . 0/10 Jon . . . 0 / 10"

---

This post... may very well be the best thing I've ever read on the Damage Dealing forums.

---

Q u o t e:


Since my nice long post was eaten.... /angryface here is a TLDR version
In short....

---

If you would like to write a post and may require more time to do it than the login timer allows, then consider writing your post in Notepad, Word, Textedit, etc. and then copying and pasting into the forum posting interface. :) You can also try the back button in some browsers and successfully reclaim your post.

---

Q u o t e:



If you would like to write a post and may require more time to do it than the login timer allows, then consider writing your post in Notepad, Word, Textedit, etc. and then copying and pasting into the forum posting interface. :) You can also try the back button in some browsers and successfully reclaim your post.

---

Ya, I felt pretty dumb, cause I usually pop that stuff into the clipboard before posting, and my browser doesn't normally eat it. I was very annoyed when I went back and it was all gone. Of course it happens on a nice long one where I was actually digging up references and stuff lol.

It wasn't a login issue, and funny enough, the message I got said I was not allowed to post on the forums, so while desperately trying to find my wall of text, I was also trying to think what in the heck I coulda said to get me banned lol.

Oh well, prolly best to have the "summary" I posted instead of the long diatribe I had in there with it, gets to the point better I guess.

---

Q u o t e:


This post... may very well be the best thing I've ever read on the Damage Dealing forums.

---

I agree lol. That's about right...I'm all for the whole "skill" thing. Actually, what I despise most about PVP is the fact that it isn't a level playing field at all. I realize this is an RPG and I guess people need some incentive to play the game for 2003939 hours, but it makes me miss games like Starcraft or even Street Fighter 2 where every match, players started at the same level. I admittedly never set foot in a BG until about a month ago, but I think it sucks that I have to go through the motions of getting my butt kicked for pretty much an eternity to get the gear that will allow me to actually be competitive. I wish they could make some kinda pvp that is more skill based, and use something else for a reward, other than gear. Probably just a pipedream though, unless someone has an incredible idea...

Well, I think people doesn't seems to see what come behind from the "burst" thing ... it's just critical ratings.
Right now Wow have much of the damage dealing trees based in critical rate. Some fact help those trees reach a good( or great ) damage without a decent gear.
My character have barely 26% of crit in Pvp, and I think it is a decent number for balance purposes, but lets change the rating with a arms warrior or a feral druid, sure they can deal a lot of damage, but with less critical rating the burst of that damage is reduced. Same can be applied to ret pallies, DKs, hunters and rogues ... to any class.
This can be appiled to healers too, pallies( again lol ) have their heal based in the fact thei can crit a lot with a lesser heal, which is fast too, other classes base it in heal-per-time or reduce damage while healing. If the critical rating of the healing is lowered boot DPS casters and healers wil be affected, but if the "real DPS" have sustain, the burst can be controlled.

Well ... making clear my point:

1- Reducing the critical rate the "possibility" of a insane initial damage becomes lower, rasing the survival chances to everyone.

2- Tthere are trees or classes with a critical rating base too high, or classes with crit bases are too low in "DAMAGE DEALING".

3- Resilience isn't working well and I think only plate users have the real benefit of it, because they already have "reduced critical damage".

4- IMHO healing must be based in "heal-over-time" not in flash-full-HP-instant-lesser-heal. A critical number with a heal must be as good as a critical strike for damage purposes.

Sorry for my bad english, good playtime for all.

I wish that I could give credit to the real author for that post, the forums have gobbled up the original post. I had to google it. It was reposted in a unofficial forum. I read it about a year ago in general forums I believe and could never forget it.

I found it by googling L2F. I posted it because I thought it was relavent to the discussion, even though it is parody.

---

Q u o t e:
We have a couple of pretty big changes in mind that will address some of the issues mentioned in this thread, particularly the bullets I laid out earlier. Because of the nature of the changes (they're not just class tweaks), we need to make sure and release the information to all of the regions at once. So I can't just dump the info on you here as much as I would like. :( But keep your eyes open. Should be this week, barring things unforeseen.

---

Guessing this is where we get promised something really cool and refreshing so ya'll can string us out for a little bit longer untill we actually figure out that the change you made was nothing more then another gimmick to squeeze another few months of play time out of us hey GC?

Hate to be negative all the time. It really isn't how I am in person. I'm just tired of seeing people complaining about every ability in every tree of every class. And I'm tired of paying $15 dollars a month so Blizz can dump all my money into balancing 2v2 to shut everyone up. I want to see new battle ground content. I want to be able to PvP with as many of my friends in this game as possible and I DO NOT want to be able to grind out all the crap PvP gear in 2 weeks then have nothing else to do but sit and wait for arena points to add up when I HATE doing arena's in the first place.

Give us our BG's back Blizz. Please.

---

Q u o t e:


Guessing this is where we get promised something really cool and refreshing so ya'll can string us out for a little bit longer untill we actually figure out that the change you made was nothing more then another gimmick to squeeze another few months of play time out of us hey GC?

Hate to be negative all the time. It really isn't how I am in person. I'm just tired of seeing people complaining about every ability in every tree of every class. And I'm tired of paying $15 dollars a month so Blizz can dump all my money into balancing 2v2 to shut everyone up. I want to see new battle ground content. I want to be able to PvP with as many of my friends in this game as possible and I DO NOT want to be able to grind out all the crap PvP gear in 2 weeks then have nothing else to do but sit and wait for arena points to add up when I HATE doing arena's in the first place.

Give us our BG's back Blizz. Please.

---

They're creating a new bg for 3.2 >.>

---

Q u o t e:


Unfortunately, it is not this simple. Lowering burst is an easy thing to fix because you can just give more sustained dps for PvE. However, healing does not work like that. So unless you are boosting HP significantly, then healers will not be able to keep tanks up in raids where people can get 2 shot.

---

It can be that simple, implement a debuff/buff when you enter an arena match that lowers damage by 15%, healing by 25% and boosts HP, then when you leave the match the debuff/buff is gone.