World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> What IS a problem in PvP right now?

Lytefyre

< Heritage >

Blackwing Lair

40. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 06:20:57 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

The thing is what is left to nerf other then core abilities that DKs need to function. Chains Of Ice getting nerfed will spiral the class into the toliet. They would have to compensate for this. The problem is CoI isn't a problem it just annoys people.

the DK's should really stop using this excuse. they would not be crippled without CoI. they'd be balanced. most other melee, (cept enhance), seem to be doing fine, and what do they have? a gap closer and a snare/snare removal and movement speed and in most cases, a stun. DK's have all of the above, and a ranged snare baseline. every spec has it's own snare already, (and frosts snare is ranged), CoI is not needed.

it allows the DK to catch you/peel you anytime he wants on what's basically a 5 sec cd. if you can't see how retardedly op that is, there is a problem.

i mean...c'mon. a DK can kite better and easier than a frost mage (with 1 damn button that's INSTANT i might add) and you're gonna sit here and pretend nothing's wrong with that?

LOL...wtf?

EDIT: on topic - what's wrong with the game is the devs trying to bring everyone's offense up to the same lvl while leaving massive differences in defensive abilities. any moron could've seen that coming.

high offense + low def + med utility = low offense + high def + med utility = high utility + high offense + really low def/etc etc. this was right. this was balanced

the way it is now...

high offense + low def < high offense + high def (+ high utility as far as DK's/rets go) the game is stupidly imbalanced.

[ Post edited by Lytefyre ]

Fealia

Khadgar

41. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 07:50:05 AM PDT

Too much QQ, not enough pewpew.

Khaotik

< Forsaken >

Antonidas

42. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 07:56:18 AM PDT

DK's counter everything.

Outdated mechanics

No caster love.

But probably the number one is .. BURST.

Don't think it's a good sign when someone can take you from 100-0 in a 10 second cc when you start at 100%.

Your an retarded.

http://imgnation.net/images/fkft.jpg

Draele

Shadow Council

43. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 08:19:53 AM PDT

DPS casters can't do anything without asking melee permission first.

Would be nice to be able to do something besides use instant cast spells.

Rantings of the Afflicted, a Warlock blog: http://draele.blogspot.com
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thunderhorn&n=Draele

Xedd

Eldre'Thalas

44. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 08:42:35 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
DKs aren't the problem. Arenas ARE the problem.

I agree completely. Arena was a bad idea and should have been left in the 70s bracket with a new en-game PvP mechanism replacing it at 80.

Without the homogenization of all classes Arena will always feel lopsided and unbalanced. However, homogenizing all the classes would take away that which makes WoW special. Arena feels distinctly anti-WoW.

Rubydawn

< Soulbound >

Norgannon

45. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:39:59 AM PDT

Tree druids - almost unkillable, ridiculous.

Ret paladins - no one except DKs live throught the inital burst, ridiculous.

DKs - just plain ridiculous.

If these 3 classes were brought down a few notches, things would greatly improve.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

47. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:48:39 AM PDT

Hi. We're not removing Arena from the game. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but many players do. We don't ignore many comments on these boards, but "They should just remove Arena / PvP from the game" is not a helpful suggestion. Things that would make PvP more fun for you or things that would keep PvP balance from intruding into your PvE are more useful.

I'll be very brief, but here are the problems we see in PvP right now.

1) Too much emphasis on Arenas and not enough on BGs.
2) Too much emphasis on 2s and not enough on 3s and 5s.
3) Not enough class / spec representation in Arena. Warlock, hunter and shaman numbers in particular are too low, but they're not the only ones.
4) Too fast-paced.

Let me explain this last one in more detail. Some people in the community think that burst dps is too high. We disagree, and the reason we do is that healing is also very powerful in Arenas, to the point at which not having a Mortal Strike debuff may be a huge liability. If you can't burst someone down when wounded, they just aren't going to die unless the healer is mana-drained or chain crowd-controlled, neither of which are overly fun in the extreme case. You can have too much damage, too much healing or too much crowd control.

But when you consider specific matches, particularly of the highest rated teams, those guys are using their full toolbox. The problem is that the windows in which to use those tools can be very small. When you are injured, you might have a global cooldown in which to respond. If you make it, you might very well be fully healed in the next cooldown and "reset" the match. If you fail, you're dead and the match may be over. We'd like to add an extra GCD or two to many of these situations.

Now there still are extreme cases of burst in some specs that need to be chilled out. However, if we just lower burst damage across the board we're concerned people just wouldn't ever die and only specs with multiple forms of crowd-control would be considered viable.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Fallujah

< DARK AßYSS >

Anetheron

49. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:51:35 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
There's no strategy.

Even sometimes I just generally say "Stop this guy, nuke the other to death." in some matches.

It's a game of who can push more buttons.

Clearly more buttons is the solution sir.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2033/seasonsix.jpg

I rest my case.

Erythnhul

< Krimson Kaos >

Silver Hand

50. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:51:40 AM PDT

What is the problem in PvP?

Healers being overpowered, leading to buffs in damage that are outrageous given the current HP levels in the game, and an increase in importance of healing debuffs that make high levels of damage a requirement if you do not have a healing debuff of your own.

Healers are the problem in PvP.

Wako

Agamaggan

51. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:52:22 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

I'll be very brief, but here are the problems we see in PvP right now.

1) Too much emphasis on Arenas and not enough on BGs.
2) Too much emphasis on 2s and not enough on 3s and 5s.
3) Not enough class / spec representation in Arena. Warlock, hunter and shaman numbers in particular are too low, but they're not the only ones.
4) Too fast-paced.

Reasonable, and I'm in agreement on all points. :)

Create Like a God, Command Like a King, Work Like a Slave.

Ishkael

< War Seeker >

Burning Legion

52. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:52:33 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Some people in the community think that burst dps is too high. We disagree, and the reason we do is that healing is also very powerful in Arenas, to the point at which not having a Mortal Strike debuff may be a huge liability. If you can't burst someone down when wounded, they just aren't going to die unless the healer is mana-drained or chain crowd-controlled, neither of which are overly fun in the extreme case. You can have too much damage, too much healing or too much crowd control.

"Some" is your opinion. If I say "most" it is also my opinion.

My opinion is that most think burst and healing is to high. The easy way out is to put this mess under the carpet and call it a day. The hard way is fixing both burst and healing so people can think and can actually PvP.

But it seems like recently Blizzard has taken the easy way out of problems and issues. And unfortunately it will create massive problems down the line.

Grudgebearer

Thorium Brotherhood

53. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:53:16 AM PDT

GC, queue times is also a bit of a concern. Especially for some of the less favorable of BGs. I'm a bit worried that 1.) the new BG will make all others empty for a long period of time and 2.) the new BG will burn out quick as the spoiler for it didn't seem all that convincing.

But anyway, is collapsing battlegroups possible for PvP queuing? Both in arenas and BGs? Or is it a logistics problem? A stability problem?

t('-',)

Deathmane

< Fear >

Demon Soul

54. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:53:29 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Hi. We're not removing Arena from the game. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but many players do. We don't ignore many comments on these boards, but "They should just remove Arena / PvP from the game" is not a helpful suggestion. Things that would make PvP more fun for you or things that would keep PvP balance from intruding into your PvE are more useful.

I'll be very brief, but here are the problems we see in PvP right now.

1) Too much emphasis on Arenas and not enough on BGs.
2) Too much emphasis on 2s and not enough on 3s and 5s.
3) Not enough class / spec representation in Arena. Warlock, hunter and shaman numbers in particular are too low, but they're not the only ones.
4) Too fast-paced.

Let me explain this last one in more detail. Some people in the community think that burst dps is too high. We disagree, and the reason we do is that healing is also very powerful in Arenas, to the point at which not having a Mortal Strike debuff may be a huge liability. If you can't burst someone down when wounded, they just aren't going to die unless the healer is mana-drained or chain crowd-controlled, neither of which are overly fun in the extreme case. You can have too much damage, too much healing or too much crowd control.

But when you consider specific matches, particularly of the highest rated teams, those guys are using their full toolbox. The problem is that the windows in which to use those tools can be very small. When you are injured, you might have a global cooldown in which to respond. If you make it, you might very well be fully healed in the next cooldown and "reset" the match. If you fail, you're dead and the match may be over. We'd like to add an extra GCD or two to many of these situations.

Now there still are extreme cases of burst in some specs that need to be chilled out. However, if we just lower burst damage across the board we're concerned people just wouldn't ever die and only specs with multiple forms of crowd-control would be considered viable.

people will flame you as always but I think you are on point.

Livissia

< Redefine >

Bonechewer

55. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:53:53 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Hi. We're not removing Arena from the game. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but many players do. We don't ignore many comments on these boards, but "They should just remove Arena / PvP from the game" is not a helpful suggestion. Things that would make PvP more fun for you or things that would keep PvP balance from intruding into your PvE are more useful.

I'll be very brief, but here are the problems we see in PvP right now.

1) Too much emphasis on Arenas and not enough on BGs.
2) Too much emphasis on 2s and not enough on 3s and 5s.
3) Not enough class / spec representation in Arena. Warlock, hunter and shaman numbers in particular are too low, but they're not the only ones.
4) Too fast-paced.

Let me explain this last one in more detail. Some people in the community think that burst dps is too high. We disagree, and the reason we do is that healing is also very powerful in Arenas, to the point at which not having a Mortal Strike debuff may be a huge liability. If you can't burst someone down when wounded, they just aren't going to die unless the healer is mana-drained or chain crowd-controlled, neither of which are overly fun in the extreme case. You can have too much damage, too much healing or too much crowd control.

But when you consider specific matches, particularly of the highest rated teams, those guys are using their full toolbox. The problem is that the windows in which to use those tools can be very small. When you are injured, you might have a global cooldown in which to respond. If you make it, you might very well be fully healed in the next cooldown and "reset" the match. If you fail, you're dead and the match may be over. We'd like to add an extra GCD or two to many of these situations.

Now there still are extreme cases of burst in some specs that need to be chilled out. However, if we just lower burst damage across the board we're concerned people just wouldn't ever die and only specs with multiple forms of crowd-control would be considered viable.

Blues in mah thred!

Thanks GC for responding.

EDIT:

I made another thread about resilience-scaling survival talents in order to discourage so much PvE gear usage in arenas.

What are your thoughts on that? (i.e. cheat death style)

[ Post edited by Livissia ]

Haply

Draka

56. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:55:03 AM PDT

We know arena can't be removed, because it's no longer practical to do so. Some people like it.

My question is do you feel just as strongly, and as "completely" about arena rewards? Do you think that because arena represents what you are calling the 'best test of skill,' that means that it should always be the pvp endgame? I'm also curious exactly why a test of skill should be a basis for gear rewards? Why is 'time invested' not the basis of gear rewards? Is this a practical solution based on the difficulty in preventing /afking?

Corpselock

Stormscale

57. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:55:25 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

1) Too much emphasis on Arenas and not enough on BGs.

Remove Arena Points and Rating Req and give Honer only

Enh shamans, Moonkins, SPriest, and Arc Mages are not classes.
Not all specs are viable in PvP
Hunters and Locks have no viable specs.
If you are having problems in PvP try Re-Specing

Arkerus

< Someguild >

Archimonde

59. Re: What IS a problem in PvP right now? 06/15/2009 09:56:19 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Hi. We're not removing Arena from the game. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but many players do. We don't ignore many comments on these boards, but "They should just remove Arena / PvP from the game" is not a helpful suggestion. Things that would make PvP more fun for you or things that would keep PvP balance from intruding into your PvE are more useful.

I'll be very brief, but here are the problems we see in PvP right now.

1) Too much emphasis on Arenas and not enough on BGs.
2) Too much emphasis on 2s and not enough on 3s and 5s.
3) Not enough class / spec representation in Arena. Warlock, hunter and shaman numbers in particular are too low, but they're not the only ones.
4) Too fast-paced.

Let me explain this last one in more detail. Some people in the community think that burst dps is too high. We disagree, and the reason we do is that healing is also very powerful in Arenas, to the point at which not having a Mortal Strike debuff may be a huge liability. If you can't burst someone down when wounded, they just aren't going to die unless the healer is mana-drained or chain crowd-controlled, neither of which are overly fun in the extreme case. You can have too much damage, too much healing or too much crowd control.

But when you consider specific matches, particularly of the highest rated teams, those guys are using their full toolbox. The problem is that the windows in which to use those tools can be very small. When you are injured, you might have a global cooldown in which to respond. If you make it, you might very well be fully healed in the next cooldown and "reset" the match. If you fail, you're dead and the match may be over. We'd like to add an extra GCD or two to many of these situations.

Now there still are extreme cases of burst in some specs that need to be chilled out. However, if we just lower burst damage across the board we're concerned people just wouldn't ever die and only specs with multiple forms of crowd-control would be considered viable.

I think you addresses one of the main issues I see. Double DPS without MS is almost completely non-viable. We simply can't put out enough damage, nor do we have the tools to stop the healing. Chain CC is fine, when it works, but druids especially are immune to several forms of CC in tree form. Healing is just too much right now.

Go ahead and fix the burst issues (if there are any) but please change healing so its not an ez mode win.

I have CS bound to the gas pedal and Divine Storm bound to the brake. I steer around murdering everything in my path. I leave a swath of destruction the size of Azeroth.

Forum > CLASS ROLES > DAMAGE DEALING