To start, I did not compile the list below, but am going to use it for reference.

At the moment, the classes that seem to be most concerned with threat is Warlocks and Mages (slightly less for mages). In the grand scheme of things, these 2 classes have to deal with threat much more often than any other class. And the reason for that is as follows:

25% for 3 points on DK (one tree) another 20% passive while in BP or UP
30% for 3 point as elemental shaman. (Wind shock as well if you need it) (One Tree)
30% for 1 point as enhancement shaman. (One Tree)
30% for 2 points for balance druids. (One Tree)
30% for 0 points while in cat
100% for Hunters. Reliable 100% dump on short cooldown
30% for 3 points for Ret Pally. 20% over 10 sec. for Paladin with HoS. No talent points. 2min CD.
30% passive reduction for rogues. 100% from vanish. Feint as an active ability.
25% for 3 points for shadow Priests.
20% passive for warriors in battle/berserker stance. 10% for 5 points in fury(comes with 20% str, might as well be another 10% passive lol)
40% for 2 points as an Arcane mage (100% reduction using invisibility as an emergency button)
10% for 3 points as Frost Mage. (Invis) Current doesn't do enough damage to be a problem)

So now. The 2 classes with threat problems.
10% for 2 points as fire mage. (100% reduction using invisibility. 3min CD)
10% for 2 points as Affliction Lock. (50% reduction with shatter. 5min CD)
10% for 2 points as Destro Lock. (50% reduction with shatter. 5min CD)
10% for 2 points in frost and 2 points in fire for an FFB mage. (100% reduction using invis. 3min CD)


As you can see from the above list, there is a huge bias against mages and warlocks in terms of threat. Warlocks in particular tend to stand out above mages in threat, due to the fact that the 2 most common raid specs provide a lot of self healing and/or mana regeneration, both of which cause additional threat. Between lifetapping, improved soul leech, soul leech heals, fel synergy pet healing, and FA ticks, there is a lot of "small" threat that adds up to a larger extra chunk of threat.


However, I think the problem isn't really that locks and mages don't have enough threat reduction and aggro dump, but that other classes have too much. Looking at just casters (since melee pull threat sooner due to being in melee range, so they need a bit more), why the heck do boomkins and elemental shaman at the cost of only 2 points and 3 points respectively? Meanwhile, mages and locks have to spend 4 points to get 10% to to both schools, since they don't have a single talent that covers all of their damage. Affliction warlocks in particular suffer this fate. Spreists get 25% for 3 points. And hunters are a ranged class that get a 100% aggro dump on a short cooldown.

IMO, I think giving warlocks and mages the same threat reductions as the other ranged would only further trivialize threat. Threat is a part of the game, and should be something people have to contend with. But they should have to contend with it on a level playing field. Currently threat reduction talents/abilities are far too biased towards some classes..

One issue I have is if I am afflcition I have to invest 4 points for my full 10%. If I only invest 2 points into improved drain soul then I am effectively only receiving 6.5% threat reduction (better than nothing).

Destruction is the same, but I am not generating nearly as much TPS from CoD, Corr, and CoA that I am from SB as affliction.

The big issue I have is the cooldown. I should not be moving from one boss fight to the next and SS not off of cooldown yet. 5 minutes is excessive. Change it to 3 minutes and I would be a happy camper.

It is a bit exhilarating riding the tanks threat for as long as possible to make SS more effective.

I've posted images of my tps vs other raid members tps all over the place. I did this well before 3.1.

I've always found the radical differences in threat management between classes to be pretty unbalanced.

Why is there such a radical difference between the threat management tools given to a hunter (on the extreme easy-mode end) and the warlock (on the extreme hard-mode end) threat-wise?

I think the game needs to go one of two ways. Either Feign Death is the standard for DPS threat management, in which case the threat dump CDs of the other DPS classes need to be brought down to a similar cooldown and ease-of-use factor -- or Soulshatter is the standard and the other DPS classes need higher CDs and an education in tapdancing on the 120% threat line.

What are you talking about, I love 'Just standing around' on Vezax hardmode!

Locks do get screwed on threat, self healing sucks and they should reduce the CD on soul shatter or make it 100% threat wipe. However, your point comparing spriest/moonkin/ele shaman passive threat reduction to lock/mage seems a bit silly.

Those specs need more passive threat reduction specifically because they have no threat management abilities. If you are riding the tank, you ask a pally for salvation, or you scale your damage back, or you pull aggro.

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Locks do get screwed on threat, self healing sucks and they should reduce the CD on soul shatter or make it 100% threat wipe. However, your point comparing spriest/moonkin/ele shaman passive threat reduction to lock/mage seems a bit silly.

Those specs need more passive threat reduction specifically because they have no threat management abilities. If you are riding the tank, you ask a pally for salvation, or you scale your damage back, or you pull aggro.

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spriests can spec into 55% threat reduction, Shamans have Windshock.

Idk about balance druids.

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Q u o t e:
Locks do get screwed on threat, self healing sucks and they should reduce the CD on soul shatter or make it 100% threat wipe. However, your point comparing spriest/moonkin/ele shaman passive threat reduction to lock/mage seems a bit silly.

Those specs need more passive threat reduction specifically because they have no threat management abilities. If you are riding the tank, you ask a pally for salvation, or you scale your damage back, or you pull aggro.

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Not only do affliction locks have to invest 4 points to get the full 10% they have to spend another 4 points to get all the range talents and you have to put those 8 points in TWO different talent trees. THIS MAKES NO SENSE!

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spriests can spec into 55% threat reduction, Shamans have Windshock.

Idk about balance druids.

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Balance druids don't have any other aggro reduction methods I know of, so I can understand the 30%. But spriests and shamans are still over the top. It's better to have a greater aggro reduction that is passive, than a reactive ability that can be resisted (soulshatter from locks, for example). Why can't locks have a 30% aggro reduction with an ability that works like windshock?

I just don't see invis and soulshatter being worth the extra 20+ % in aggro reduction as a trade off that other classes get, with hunter's feign death on the extreme end of the spectrum.

Again it's just all over the place, and locks and mages seem to get the shaft. I really feel there is some balancing that needs to be done to the ranged aggro reduction/dumps.

It's even worse when you soulshatter, wipe, and then don't have it for the next attempt on the boss and get owned because you expected it to be up after the minute-long run back.

While I agree that Hunters have it a little easy on the Threat Management, I'd like to point out something while we're on the topic...

Hunters have 0 passive threat reduction - there are no talents that reduce threat generated, nor any passive threat reduction baked into abilities (like Battle & Berserker Stance, Cat Form, etc). This mean a Hunter is fairly vulnerable to pulling aggro at the start of a pull when the Tanks don't have much threat in the first place. This is slightly mitigated by Hunter damage being less bursty than Warlocks/Mages, but is still a risk. On a single target (like a boss or super-trash mob), this isn't an issue - the Hunter simply makes sure that his/her inital damage doesn't push them too far over the tank, then Feigns after a short time. The Hunter is then able to DPS without too much worry about threat (It's possible to build all the way back up to the tank's threat even after Feign'ing, but Feign will be off cooldown by then - it's simply a matter of paying attention to Omen/Blizzard's Tooltip Threat and hitting Feign as nessessary).

However, there is one fairly large flaw with this system - Adds that spawn mid-fight, and tank threat wipes, any time a target's threat table is mostly clean (ie: no one has much threat, if any, on that mob). A Hunter can easily pull threat off a newly-spawned add if a tank hasn't gotten a few good smacks on it first. Again, this is somewhat mitigated by Misdirect and good use of Taunts, but the risk exists.

The end result is not that Hunters don't care or don't pay attention to threat, but rather that they need to pay different amounts of attention at different times - more at the start of a pull or when attacking a newly-spawned add, and less later on into the fight.

None of this, however, mitigates the arguement that Warlocks & Mages have to pay a (perhaps) excess amount of attention to managing their threat. It's simply to clarify that Hunter's EasyMode threat management doesn't mean they don't pay any attention at all.

One thing u forget about is the locks have the same problem with newly spawned adds. First, because of the ticks from Fel Armor it is totally possible for locks to pull healing aggro right off the back if the tanks don't catch them in time. Second, if it is due to AoE we might have to waste our precious 1CD to save or ass. Now I am not saying locks can just seed and reign of fire without paying attention merely using your example. But in the case of hunters it is more likely that you will have your CD available and mages can also IB to keep from getting killed. Locks don't have either of those luxuries.

Most of the time Affliction can't even put points into the Threat reduction talents and destruction/Demon don't get enough out of theirs.

Also, don't forget that aff-locks can't just stop dpsing like other classes. With the exception of shadow bolt all our damage is from dots. Other classes can just stop dpsing for a few seconds to give aggro back. I've been in situations where I've stopped shadowbolting but still pulled aggro from the tank.

With the hunter's idea that they pull aggro from newly spawned mobs, I'm not discrediting that however we are constantly healing ourselves with siphon life(on corruptions damage), fel armor, and haunt immediately putting us atop the threat meter if they all should hit/tick together.

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Q u o t e:
One thing u forget about is the locks have the same problem with newly spawned adds. First, because of the ticks from Fel Armor it is totally possible for locks to pull healing aggro right off the back if the tanks don't catch them in time. Second, if it is due to AoE we might have to waste our precious 1CD to save or ass. Now I am not saying locks can just seed and reign of fire without paying attention merely using your example. But in the case of hunters it is more likely that you will have your CD available and mages can also IB to keep from getting killed. Locks don't have either of those luxuries.

Most of the time Affliction can't even put points into the Threat reduction talents and destruction/Demon don't get enough out of theirs.

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This really should not be an issue. If adds are spawning mid fight, your 1 tick of 500hp healed every 5 seconds isn't going to pull aggro over the healers that are healing the tanks and raid during this time. The add would have to literally spawn on top of your head at the exact time you got a tick of FA (that actually wasn't overhealing) in order for this to be the case.

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This really should not be an issue. If adds are spawning mid fight, your 1 tick of 500hp healed every 5 seconds isn't going to pull aggro over the healers that are healing the tanks and raid during this time. The add would have to literally spawn on top of your head at the exact time you got a tick of FA (that actually wasn't overhealing) in order for this to be the case.

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I'm not so sure about that. Newly-spawned adds seem to love eating Mages in blue tornadoes. :(

Anyway, another poster mentioned this above, but I thought it worth bringing up again. Ranged DPS is balanced with an extra 20% buffer in mind. Unfortunately, that buffer only applies when ranged DPS can actually stand at range. Often, that isn't the case.

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Q u o t e:


I'm not so sure about that. Newly-spawned adds seem to love eating Mages in blue tornadoes. :(

Anyway, another poster mentioned this above, but I thought it worth bringing up again. Ranged DPS is balanced with an extra 20% buffer in mind. Unfortunately, that buffer only applies when ranged DPS can actually stand at range. Often, that isn't the case.

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A mage casting evocation is generating a lot more threat than a single tick of FA every 5 seconds, once again assuming even that none of that FA tick is overhealing.

As for the comment about ranged buffer, that's fine and all, however, look at the imbalance between the RANGED classes I mentioned above.

Would love to see Blizz do something about this.

just make it so that invis wipes 50% threat every tick or something. nothing like getting to 120% tank threat, blowing mirror image and going even higher and then using invis after 20 seconds......and it gets interrupted. and you have 200k more threat than is needed to pull aggo (hodir) =(.

Seriously, invisibility is just stupid...

it reduces 10% of your threat every second for 3 seconds and then wipes all threat completely. So if I get hit by some random stupid AoE, or some god damn pulse damage, I only get 10% of my threat reduced, and it's on a god damn 3 minute cooldown.