7 pages and I haven't seen anybody post any statistics on Feral Druids. Last I saw they were below 3 pures and WAY below Rogues. They aren't even the highest hybrid.


http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17779529523&sid=1&pageNo=1

Combat - 7964
Fire - 7843
Destruction - 7573
Assassination - 7283
Unholy - 7212
Feral - 7092
Shadow - 7079
Blood - 6995
Survival - 6994
Elemental 6991
Affliction - 6926
Frost [DK] - 6888
Enh - 6811
Demonology - 6808
Arms - 6764
Ret - 6751
Marksmanship - 6736
Boomkin - 6646
Arcane - 6543
Fury - 6342
Subtlety - 5271
Beast Mastery - 4838
Frost [MAGE] - 4619


Feral is 12.3% behind Rogues and 10.5% behind Mages. Try actually using data to support your argument next time.

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Q u o t e:
He wont post any numbers and judging by his lack of response after multiple people asked him to back his claims I assume the chump has exited dah thread.

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Nah, just got tired of repeating myself and had to go.

It took me under 60 seconds to find these:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5120218#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4887024#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4573517#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5187662#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4681226#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5126952#damageout

Okay, I'm done.

Now, I'm not saying that Kitty dps is the BEST or anything and that they need MASSIVE nerfs, but they're leaps and bounds ahead of all other hybrids, except Blood DKs. With that said, it doesn't shock me that you guys are denying it. Everyone wants to be broken.

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Q u o t e:
7 pages and I haven't seen anybody post any statistics on Feral Druids. Last I saw they were below 3 pures and WAY below Rogues. They aren't even the highest hybrid.


http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17779529523&sid=1&pageNo=1

Combat - 7964
Fire - 7843
Destruction - 7573
Assassination - 7283
Unholy - 7212
Feral - 7092
Shadow - 7079
Blood - 6995
Survival - 6994
Elemental 6991
Affliction - 6926
Frost [DK] - 6888
Enh - 6811
Demonology - 6808
Arms - 6764
Ret - 6751
Marksmanship - 6736
Boomkin - 6646
Arcane - 6543
Fury - 6342
Subtlety - 5271
Beast Mastery - 4838
Frost [MAGE] - 4619


Feral is 12.3% behind Rogues and 10.5% behind Mages. Try actually using data to support your argument next time.

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I will support this data:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rNQYS221OWlH1bGTNIdY-aw

Is this a pvp thread or a pve thread. I dont know squat about what pvp is at atm so dont make assumptions i'm talking about that.

However druids are more then 5% behind mages, warlocks and rogues currently on average in pve. Dmg is fine. That can be proven and has been countless times. I'm not sure why people still have a complaint other then the fact that they got beat on meters and oh no it couldnt possibly be that that person is a really bad rogue and doesnt know how to play.

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Q u o t e:
Nah, just got tired of repeating myself and had to go.

It took me under 60 seconds to find these:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5120218#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4887024#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4573517#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5187662#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4681226#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5126952#damageout

Okay, I'm done.

Now, I'm not saying that Kitty dps is the BEST or anything and that they need MASSIVE nerfs, but they're leaps and bounds ahead of all other hybrids, except Blood DKs. With that said, it doesn't shock me that you guys are denying it. Everyone wants to be broken.

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Yes, citing single parsers is much better than look at overall dps comparisons. And it would seem you are arguing not that cats are in need of nerfs, but rather that other hybrids are in need of buffs.

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Q u o t e:
Nah, just got tired of repeating myself and had to go.

It took me under 60 seconds to find these:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5120218#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4887024#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4573517#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5187662#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/4681226#damageout
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/5126952#damageout

Okay, I'm done.

Now, I'm not saying that Kitty dps is the BEST or anything and that they need MASSIVE nerfs, but they're leaps and bounds ahead of all other hybrids, except Blood DKs. With that said, it doesn't shock me that you guys are denying it. Everyone wants to be broken.

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Sorry your XT parses aren't compelling. You do realize we can easily find the parse for all bosses from those links. On the first parse the Feral was over 15% behind on all bosses.

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Q u o t e:
Feral DPS in PvE is too high at the moment; I'll admit it (I'm a feral in PvE who does strictly dps).

Here's how to lower it without making Ferals useless as a dps:

1) Lower Savage Roar's coefficient to 20% damage (down from 30%).
2) Put Rake back on Primal Gore (roughly a 6-8% damage increase for well geared ferals... less for ArP stackers).

Essentially, this lowers ALL damage by 10%, and increases raid damage by a theoretical maximum (100% crit, zero armor) of 8%, in most test cases it will be about 6% for well geared ferals who do not stack ArP, and about 5% for those who do (but this change will make them regem for agi rather than ArP). This is a net 5% reduction in output from a raid.

Of all the world-best parses, Ferals are tied with Rogues (or just below) in terms of output, and Blizzard wants Hybrids to be ~5% behind them... so a 5% damage nerf is in order.

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This ^^

feral is too high atm

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Q u o t e:


This ^^

feral is too high atm

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prove it. So far no one can. So far many have DISPROVED that theory that you and the rest of the bads have.

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Q u o t e:


This ^^

feral is too high atm

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Data be damned! Reality is what I want it to be!

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Q u o t e:


Data be damned! Reality is what I want it to be!

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I can only prove my own existence, therefore everything else is an illusion. The bads are an unpleasant illusion, therefore I will ignore them and they will cease to exist.

This existential moment brought to you by Dr. Brun.

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Q u o t e:
Yes, citing single parsers is much better than look at overall dps comparisons. And it would seem you are arguing not that cats are in need of nerfs, but rather that other hybrids are in need of buffs.

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Hmm , possibly. Either way, buffing the rest or toning down Feral, the end result is still the same.

Hell, I'm of the belief that all dps classes, if played to their maximum should be equal.

Apparently Blizzard in their [lack of] infinite wisdom disagrees. "Pure" classes are something special and their monthly fees carry more weight. They must be Gods in PvE and PvP, so sayeth the designers.

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Q u o t e:
Hmm , possibly. Either way, buffing the rest or toning down Feral, the end result is still the same.

Hell, I'm of the belief that all dps classes, if played to their maximum should be equal.

Apparently Blizzard in their [lack of] infinite wisdom disagrees. "Pure" classes are something special and their monthly fees carry more weight. They must be Gods in PvE and PvP, so sayeth the designers.

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5% is acceptable, however Rogues are way above that. The Hodir fight should be adjusted. Its accounting for too much of the mage DPS and it makes stacking mages necessary for hard mode. If they fixed Hodir then mages would probably deserve a buff.

Combat - 7964
Arms - 6764

Rogues are 18% ahead of Warriors.

Some empirical evidence suggesting ferals may be too good: Ensidia's Algalon kill, and their personal observations that ferals are the very best single target DPS. Not a consolidated WWS style list, sure, but one of the top guilds in the world making an observation has to have at least some weight.

In addition, feral AoE (and by extension, rogue AoE) is probably too good at the moment. If you're an unbiased feral, it's not hard to see and admit that, especially if you are trying to defend single target performance by its complexity. Cat AoE is low effort, HUGE reward. Yes, you can dismiss it as a trash-type gimmick, but enough boss fights are starting to include AoE where you can't entirely dismiss it as only good on trash anymore.

Finally, in response to the Vodka druid: I disagree that ferals aren't punished for breaking their rotation (as mentioned, other classes don't suffer nearly as much) but it may not hurt to make the rotation even more finicky. In personal experience, feral only really starts to get tricky when you include ferocious bites; other then that, it's essentially alternating two finishing moves while refreshing mangle and rip, and spamming shred when you have nothing better to do.

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Q u o t e:

Okay, I'm done.

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You were "done" several pages ago.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17779529523&sid=1&pageNo=1

Feral's fine, if anything we could use a slight buff.

Now, get out.

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Q u o t e:

5% is acceptable, however Rogues are way above that. The Hodir fight should be adjusted. Its accounting for too much of the mage DPS and it makes stacking mages necessary for hard mode. If they fixed Hodir then mages would probably deserve a buff.

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I agree, except for the Hodir hard mode comment. We do it with one mage.

Damn, almost believed you were actually a Druid. Too bad you keep saying "they" instead of "we" or "I".

Bad Troll is Bad.

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Q u o t e:
Because of their higher skill cap they're allowed to outdps pures? ie Hunters and even mages for some bosses(equal gear/skill taken into account)?

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No, because of their higher skill cap its hard to nerf it in a way that will be fairly uniform, rather than nerfing the top players a little and the weak players a lot.