World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5

Fatturtle

Arena Tournament 1

0. GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:39:36 PM PDT

Can something seriously be done about this? Rogues are running around with that 33/38/0 spec that combines overkill, ARush and throwing specialization. What this means is they can literally SPAM fan of knives with blade flurry active as well. There are a list of problems with this spec that seriously deteriorates the fun in 5s.

-AOE MS effect makes the damage from FoK ridiculously hard to heal through
-AOE crippling poison makes it very hard to get away once the rogue gets in range of a few members
-The FoK spam with a bladeflurry rogue attacking a target does amazing aoe and single target damage.

I'm fine with the above three. The map usually decides the impact of the FoK spam because the larger the map, the easier it is to spread out and avoid the aoe cleave of the rogue. There are PvE implications of FoK spreading poisons as well. The most disruptive part of FoK spam is the talent throwing specialization.

How is a 100% chance to range interrupt all the casters on a 5s team balanced? A rogue running with sprint positioning himself around the healers or the casters basically aoe cleaves and shuts down all opposing casting in a 10 yard range. The energy regen of overkill and arush allows the rogue to keep up a ridiculous amount of pressure and disruption as his team mates unload on the targets that are MS'd, slowed and can't cast.

PLEASE change throwing specialization to work for deadly throw only! The AOE ms and crippling need to be addressed as well but t hey aren't as game changing as an aoe interrupt on no cooldown. Casters have a hard enough time as it is against pummels and melee, this part of the talent does not need to be in the game.

Undeadmagus

Aegwynn

1. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:44:00 PM PDT

I dont want to sound like a broken record, but dont group up? :D

Talfurin

< Dawn Vigil >

Feathermoon

2. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:45:33 PM PDT

Throwing specialization affects FoK? Wow, didnt know that and I must say that's pretty stupid. Who came up with the idea that an AOE damaging silence was a balanced idea?

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

3. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:47:28 PM PDT

So, last I looked today, rogues were represented in really low numbers in 5s among high rated teams (particularly considering they are over represented in 2s and 3s). So "Mortal FoK" doesn't seem to be winning them too many matches, at least not yet, though it could be one of those things that is annoying even if not overpowered.

[ Post edited by Ghostcrawler ]

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Fatturtle

Arena Tournament 1

5. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:49:02 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
I dont want to sound like a broken record, but dont group up? :D

It's pretty hard to prevent grouping up on places like the blade's edge bridge, dalaran arena, org arena, and ruins tomb. The rogue doesn't necessarily have to get the ENTIRE team. As long as he's positioned between the casters or around the healers, he dismantles the other team. These aren't raid situations where positioning can be picked and decided upon before the encounter.

Talfurin

< Dawn Vigil >

Feathermoon

7. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:50:51 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
So, last I looked today, rogues were represented in really low numbers among high rated teams (particularly considering they are over represented in 2s and 3s). So "Mortal FoK" doesn't seem to be winning them too many matches, at least not yet, though it could be one of those things that is annoying even if not overpowered.

Its been my perception lately that there's a policy by the designers to allow overpowered abilities to stay in the game on the basis that a class or certain spec has low representation in arena. Is this something that will continue in the future because I'm sure I've seen correspondence posted that has said otherwise in the past.

Tiamet

< Existence >

Arygos

8. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:56:09 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
So, last I looked today, rogues were represented in really low numbers in 5s among high rated teams (particularly considering they are over represented in 2s and 3s). So "Mortal FoK" doesn't seem to be winning them too many matches, at least not yet, though it could be one of those things that is annoying even if not overpowered.

That might have something to do with the fact very few play 5v5. My bg has next to no active teams.

Moonwrath

< Existence >

Burning Legion

9. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/10/2009 11:59:47 PM PDT

Spread out for 15 seconds and then gib the rogue now that adrenaline rush is down. Wow, that was so hard to counter.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2400/gccleave.jpg

They don't know that we know they know we know!

Talfurin

< Dawn Vigil >

Feathermoon

11. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/11/2009 12:03:28 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

That might have something to do with the fact very few play 5v5. My bg has next to no active teams.

I would assume he's basing that off the % of those that DO play 5v5. Still, its really no excuse to have an ability that is spamable, AOE silences, AOE poison application and AOE damage. If the ability was part of the repertoire of a high represented class it would be hotfixed pretty quickly I would presume.

Ogc

< Fight >

Tortheldrin

12. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/11/2009 12:03:50 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
So, last I looked today, rogues were represented in really low numbers in 5s among high rated teams (particularly considering they are over represented in 2s and 3s). So "Mortal FoK" doesn't seem to be winning them too many matches, at least not yet, though it could be one of those things that is annoying even if not overpowered.

Rogues are doing so poorly in 5v5 because of their survivability. The FoK spec is a very annoying spec that needs to be dealt with, but rogues' survivability needs to be addressed in 5s moreso.

If you give them the survivability without nerfing the FoK spec, you will find rogues dominating the bracket. If you nerf FoK without giving them added survivability, you will see a VERY sharp decline in the current rogues that actually are doing well in the bracket with the spec.

GC:

Please get rid of the spec, I understand that not even Rogues enjoy playing it.

But please give them some way to survive in 5v5. My 5v5 (currently ranked #8 in the world), just one shots rogues after they pop cloak. We can't do this to any other class, oddly enough.

Dharana

< Hysteria >

Aman'Thul

13. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/11/2009 12:05:03 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
So, last I looked today, rogues were represented in really low numbers in 5s among high rated teams (particularly considering they are over represented in 2s and 3s). So "Mortal FoK" doesn't seem to be winning them too many matches, at least not yet, though it could be one of those things that is annoying even if not overpowered.

It's a stupid, gimmicky reason to bring a rogue. Wanting to bring their representation up is fine, do it some other way.

Fire pvp thread, take 2:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16904290864&sid=1

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/Kolenzo/DORAISAMRT.jpg

Whitechick

Hellscream

16. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/11/2009 12:07:27 AM PDT

Death Knights are behind rogues in 2s, are middle of the road in 3s and are dead last in 5s.

Is anything going to be done to bring up there group utility since a Ret Paladin is always better in any 5v5 or 3v3 match do to group utility. Death Knights provide almost no group utility which is why they are not good in 3v3 and 5v5. Also diseases being dispelled is more of a issue in those brackets whichs makes them one of the worse possible melee damage dealers in those two brackets.

Cinamanbunz

< NERD RAGE >

Laughing Skull

17. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/11/2009 12:07:47 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
So, last I looked today, rogues were represented in really low numbers in 5s among high rated teams (particularly considering they are over represented in 2s and 3s). So "Mortal FoK" doesn't seem to be winning them too many matches, at least not yet, though it could be one of those things that is annoying even if not overpowered.

Feral druids always sucked in just about every bracket, but since they were annoying you decided to take a dump on them in multiple ways, right?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Lamissa

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

18. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/11/2009 12:08:49 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Its been my perception lately that there's a policy by the designers to allow overpowered abilities to stay in the game on the basis that a class or certain spec has low representation in arena. Is this something that will continue in the future because I'm sure I've seen correspondence posted that has said otherwise in the past.

No, not at all. I've always maintained that things can be unbalanced even if they don't affect the rarefied air of the best Arena players. But at the same time, if something is really overpowered (as opposed to just annoying) you might expect it to have a significant effect on the outcome. But there can be a lag in things like this sometimes before everyone catches on.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Kreios

< Infamous >

Auchindoun

19. Re: GC: Fan of Knives spec is RUINING 5v5 06/11/2009 12:11:37 AM PDT

GC just curious, how over represented are rogues in 2's now? I don't see many outside of rogue/priest, and even that seems to have given way to the more dominant druid/X, namely druid/dk druid/warrior.

Now 3's I understand, with RMP still being very popular.

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