Here is the WMO parse from our (first) XT-002 Deconstructor hard mode kill last night.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wKLEI94kLiTEnH6r/sum/healingDone/?s=9940&e=10544

   	Name 		Class		Amount  			HPS

	Healmaster 	Priest		2751459 	14.10% 		4722.3

	Sixcubes   	Druid		2708565  	13.88%  	4674.7

 	Snowiïe   	Paladin		2433826  	12.47%  	4177.4

 	Jekias    	Priest		2216126  	11.36%  	3751.5

	Bazull    	Shaman		1902982  	9.75%		3400.6

 	Kja 		Shaman		1892017  	9.69%		3299.4

Both priests were holy, on raid healing. Sixcubes is a trial druid with no 4pce, raid healing. Snowiïe was tank healing. Bazull was raid healing, and I was assigned to gravity/light bomb targets (especially during tantrum) and raid healing.

As far as ideal conditions go for resto shaman wanting to use chain heal goes, this fight is good.

But I'll let the WMO parse do the talking.



I really don't understand how people can (GC cough) suggest resto shaman are fine in PvE. The meter speaks for itself for our lack of healing.

If we had our main resto druid online, or another priest, myself or the other resto shaman would have been sitting outside the instance, no questions asked. Druids and priests drastically outperform shaman. Bring the player, not the class, right?



Ghostcrawler:

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Q u o t e:
Looking at a 10 minute Ulduar fight with a very competent Resto shaman, I see 100 Chain Heals, 80 Lesser Healing Waves, 36 Riptides, and a couple of NS'd Healing Waves. (Like many heals, HW isn't going to be attractive until hp / mana matters.) I'm not going to out this player for you to Armory him, so you can say he needs to L2P if you want. :)

Different shamans heal differently, but we find the assertion that CH is dead to be a little overblown. There are some improvements we can make to Resto, especially for PvP, and they still seem to need mana (or at least MP5) more than some of the other healers, but we really don't think Chain Heal is in a terrible place. If you're on tank healing duty, you're going to CH less. If the raid damage comes at predictable intervals, then priest and druid AEs may stomp on yours. But when your groups are tight and the damage is coming in constantly (Thorim for instance, though that is not the fight I referenced above) then CH is a great spell. We'd rather see shamans mixing up their heals as above than doing 90% of healing from the one spell.

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You are correct in saying shaman cast chain heal a lot. Not because the spell is really really good, but because its the most effective heal we have... and yet it still sucks, but we cast it none the less. Chain heal (/shaman) simply does not compare to other aoe healing (/all healing).

Us shaman have been neglected pretty hard for years. We didn't even get any new icons in the last patch.

Please help us.

Maybe you're just not very good.

Very constructive.

But possible yes?

I'm sure i can find a single WMO report out there of a resto shaman outhealing a druid and a priest.

You wont find a single WMO with a resto shaman beating a holy priest or resto druid on a hard mode kill. If you're getting beaten by your guilds shaman, then maybe you're the bad one? Keep it constructive or piss off.

Checking your HST values, they each accounted for about 600 HPS, little less.

Maybe the devs feel this is supposed to make up for our sub par raw AoE ability.
3400 + 600 = 4000, which puts you almost even with your priests and druids.

Edit: Earlier GC posted about a shaman using CH effectively during a hard mode Thorim kill.
In that specific hard mode, you may find shaman have an easier time because guilds prefer to stack in several small groups of a few players, to best mitigate the chain lightning.
Naturally this caters to CH well, but does not represent the remainder of the instance well.

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Q u o t e:
Maybe you're just not very good.

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You'd have far more credibility making a call like that if you'd done an Ulduar 25 hard mode and experienced the settings where shamans are suffering more than anywhere else.

shamans just have nothing they can do until they see a health bar drop.

It's an unfortunate aspect of the class. The long CH cast time means That by the time CH lands, there have already been several WG's, COH's, and HOT procs leaving much less potential healing that needs to be done.

The bounce range is probably an issue too but I haven't seen anyone estimate how much.

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Q u o t e:
But possible yes?

I'm sure i can find a single WMO report out there of a resto shaman outhealing a druid and a priest.

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The best paladin in the world should not outheal the worst shaman in the world on that fight. That fact that one paladin beat two shamans speaks volumes.

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You'd have far more credibility making a call like that if you'd done an Ulduar 25 hard mode and experienced the settings where shamans are suffering more than anywhere else.

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There's really no credibility needed. The OP's claim was that he got outhealed on XT-002 Hard mode by druids and priests, therefore shaman are underpowered. Isn't it also a possibility that said druids and priests were better players?

The point is a single fight isn't convincing evidence.

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Q u o t e:
The best paladin in the world should not outheal the worst shaman in the world on that fight. That fact that one paladin beat two shamans speaks volumes.

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You base this statement off what exactly?

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There's really no credibility needed. The OP's claim was that he got outhealed on XT-002 Hard mode by druids and priests, therefore shaman are underpowered. Isn't it also a possibility that said druids and priests were better players?

The point is a single fight isn't convincing evidence.

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I'll post WMO from Thorim, Council and Hodir hard modes later in the week, which all tell a very similar story.

Shaman get out performed on every Ulduar hard mode encounter.

You are clueless and clearly have no place in this thread, nor the experience to offer anything constructive.

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Q u o t e:


I'll post WMO from Thorim, Council and Hodir hard modes later in the week, which all tell a very similar story.

Shaman get out performed on every Ulduar hard mode encounter.

You are clueless and clearly have no place in this thread, nor the experience to offer anything constructive.

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We're good on Thorim when we don't have to move out of lightning charge, really.

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Q u o t e:
Maybe you're just not very good.

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It's a pretty normative parse. How is Yogg treating you btw?

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You base this statement off what exactly?

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Based on the fact that paladin is tank healer, shaman is raid healer, and Mimiron hard mode is a lot of raid healing?

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You mean YOU get out performed on every Ulduar hard mode encounter.

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I have to admit, this guy is pretty good at trolling you

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Q u o t e:
GC posted about a shaman using CH effectively during a hard mode Thorim kill.

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GC specifically said it was NOT Thorim.

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If we had our main resto druid online, or another priest, myself or the other resto shaman would have been sitting outside the instance, no questions asked.

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Why? Would having another priest or druid in the raid suddenly make it so there's more healing to be done? I don't get it, all that would happen is the top healers go down a bit and the bottom healers go up a bit, the healing still gets done either way, who cares how it's split on the meter?...

The issue is though that these encounters are designed to screw healers out of raid spots and there's always going to be a scapegoat. While Shaman do need some chain heal buffs a real issue is with the hard mode encounters themselves.

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Q u o t e:
Checking your HST values, they each accounted for about 600 HPS, little less.

Maybe the devs feel this is supposed to make up for our sub par raw AoE ability.
3400 + 600 = 4000, which puts you almost even with your priests and druids.

Edit: Earlier GC posted about a shaman using CH effectively during a hard mode Thorim kill.
In that specific hard mode, you may find shaman have an easier time because guilds prefer to stack in several small groups of a few players, to best mitigate the chain lightning.
Naturally this caters to CH well, but does not represent the remainder of the instance well.

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You were looking at it wrong, its not 3400+600, that 3400 is INCLUDING the healing stream totem. If you dont include the Healing stream totem he is only doing 2800 HPS.

And yea like the person a few posts before me said, GC said himself that it was NOT thorim, but he said that is a good fight to chain heal.... Chain heal the gauntlet that is.... not the actual fight.