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Q u o t e:
- Will you please read this post?:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17367813231&sid=1

- This person has summed up every problem basically. Please address some of the issues brought up here.

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THIS!

Why DPS warrior has to be "carried" all the way until he gears up in nearly full set of BiS to do viable dps when no other class is so gear dependent?

My Questions

1) What is our role supposed to be as a Prot Warrior in PVE? What has your intent been?

Currently it seems like people want all the AoE threat gen/dmg that DKs, Prot Pallies, and Druids get. In all honesty, I am OK not being the best class in AoE tanking. I think a Prot warrior excels at keeping one target glued to them. It is quite the rotation we need to do to make that happen but that makes it fun. It seems like single target is where a warrior excels. It may be beneficial to keep that a focus.

2) Should warriors be able to mitigate more damage with their shields?

It seems like Warriors should have much stronger mitigation against physical attacks than magical. That is certainly the case now, but is the prot warrior able to mitigate enough damage from physical blows? It doesn't seem like it. We might be able to block 1-2 K damage with a shield, that goes towards taking less damage, then how come everyone wants a DK tank? Because the DK tank is somehow able to withstand the physical blows as well as the magical, and yet they aren't carrying a shield. Alot of the mitigation from a DK comes from not being hit. This is why dodge and parry are huge defensive stats for them. Perhaps the warrior needs to mitigate more damage with a shield?

3) Will there ever be some sort of knockback for sword and board?

Knockback seems counter intuitive in some encounters as you aren't generating threat if you aren't hitting it, but could this mechanic be useful? If not a knockback, a knock down?

Arms

* Blood Frenzy now only increases melee attack speed.

Just saw that in the new patch notes. While I realize that patch notes are not finalize, it confuses me why this is thrown into the PTR for testing.
Are you taking away the Deep Wounds/Rend + 4% damage because its too much in PvP?

I'm confused because right now the conception is Arms is the best PvE dps spec, but taking away the damage buff on BF takes away from the little utility warriors bring to raids. Given that there are no changes
to buff fury:

Why do you feel this nerf is necessary?

(Please understand I'm not trying to qq or get the nerf undone I'm just curious why. Also based on the mage and shaman responses to Q&A's this seems to not be the most appropriate place to post this question so if there is a better place could you please direct me to it).

I have nothing to add per say. I simply want to repost certain questions for the sake of over emphasis, and stress certain points that I think you must answer in order to be taken seriously in your desires to respond to the warrior community (specifically dps warriors).

1.) I have to know...why should anyone actually desire or seek out a dps warrior for any raid group?

2.) Do you honestly believe there is parity amongst the plate wearing dps classes in terms of raw dps, one on one viabilty, and raid/dungeon viability? Again, why would a group actually prefer a dps warrior as opposed to a Dk or Pally?

3.) I cannot comprehend the fact that warriors cannot mitigate spell damge from both Dk's and Pallies, yet they both can drastically mitigate our physical damage. You must be able to see the inequity in this. I must know, what do you believe the function of a warrior to be in a world of Dk's and Pallies who can offer more damage, and mitigte more damage?

4.) Why do you think the warrior community is most vocal in its complaints? Are we all simply bad at this game? Are we all whining? While you continue to nerf the small scraps we get thrown our way (Ms crits off charge, charge cd's), we still are mocked when confronting other plate wearing dps classes, and only begrudgingly let into raid groups. Weather or not you take our complaints seriously...we all still deal with the "reality" of the situation nearly everyday. I just don't understand why you all are failing to act.

I am new to the gaming world. In fact this is the only game I play, period. When I began, I chose a warrior because of its initial descriptions, and the notion of a warrior being a raw animal in melee combat, who both brings the pain, and takes it. Now, 80 levels later, I realize that naive notion was a silly fantasy. We bring very little "pain" (especially relative to other player)....and we truely are paper plate wearers. We go down like a sack of potatos (numerous warriors have said the very samething).

Here is my worthless suggestion. We don't need our own heals...we don't need better escape mechanisms (what kind of warrior wants to escape, we fight to win, or we die)...and we don't need any girly magic tricks (we don't wear dresses when we fight after all). What we need are more of the traits that are suppose to define a warrior. Just make it so that our Stamina is far superior to everyone elses, and make it so that our physical damage is superior to others as well. Let us actually be better in melee situations...let us actually last longer in struggles. It seems so painfully simple to me.

As it stands, dps warriors are broken. You must take steps to fix it. Everyone knows that warriors are the "blah" class of WOW. It seems we are only here because, well, these types of games "have" to have a warrior class...don't they?

1.) Why are warriors left with outdated mechanics (rage) & design (damage penalties for stances/talents) while other classes have evolved?

- Give us some fun and interesting changes that gets our design up to par!


2.) Why are warriors the only class without some form of long term CC?



3.) Why are warriors talent trees STILL bloated with lackluster talents (see "shouts")?



4.) Why do warriors have subpar utility compared to other "hybrids" yet still suffer the dps tax?

- Utility includes subpar buffs (LOTP) and other "special" buffs like Innervate/Battle Rez/Heroism/etc

a skilled warrior will always win against any class but a skilled warrior will never win against any other skilled class none zilch !
how are you going to fix us when it comes to pvp
dps wise and ability and survivability
and also pve dps wise ?

I have never been one to complain about my role as a warrior. Warrior was the first class i chose a few months before TBC came out and this is when i started my WoW experience. Since then i have seen the rise and fall of class and it is becoming wuite bad. My biggest gripe is the "Hybrid" tag we are getting as a class. As it has been said before, we cannot play multiple roles ina pinch! And at least with hybrids you get good gas mileage. We warriors are like a hybrid car that needs to stay connected to the wal to run. And by wall i mean a healer in pvp!

But in all seriousness, a boomkin, ret pally, DK, Shaman with similar gear will out dps me any day, and DK's and Paly's with similar gear outshine me every raid. All i ask is:

1) Why do we suffer as tanks and DPS when other "Hybrids" do that so much better. It has been asled countless times in this forum, but it needs to be addressed.

Thanks for listening to my vent!

As someone who has played a warrior since day 1 (almost since launch) I just have a couple of questions, that I'm sure have been asked, but I'll ask again.

1) Currently Fury is pretty much unuseable. The 10% damage decrease is way to much. With 2 232 dps weapons i do less dps then I do with a 213 in arms and pole axe specced. Any plans to tweak it a bit?

2) that brings me to the weapon specs, Poleaxe is king, and Mace/sword are unviable. Sword just plain sucks these days and Mace only works if you stack nothing but Armor Pen. Any ideas on this?

3) In the prot tree, I just notice that AoE is still hard, though shockwave helped a ton, and shield block is pretty much useless. Any tweaks to that?

Lastly, 4) as a tank, in Ulduar tier gear, I notice most other classes wind up have a lot more HP then me in similar or worse gear, I know for Druids thats their thing, but Pallies and DKs seem to wind up with a lot more without even gemming for it. Any plans to tweak out Stamina boost talent?

Oh and another thing!

What's up with the pally last stand? I mean it seems as cool as Last Stand and they dont have to press a button? They dont have to realize, "Oh no im low on health" and pop a CD. instead they are instantly saved?

For trying to even out "Hybrids" Blizz sure is giving us wars the short end. Ghost justifies it as Last Stand with no control, yet its this control that makes Last Stand suck sometimes. Instead of lying there dead saying "Man, i guess i should of hit last stand," i feel that im being bullied out of the warrior tanking spot!

I understand that there has to be a "Shortest Midget." But with the introduction of an Auto-Last Stand (Which, correct me if I'm wrong please!) my midget brother just became a real sized boy while im stuck wearing toddler clothes and having people take me along because they feel bad for me.

And i do not mean to sound like some of the whiny, inconsiderate posts. I understand changes take testing and testing and more testing, but GC talked about these big changes. Instead of throwing them aside, when is it the right time to tackle them? From a dev's point of view, when does community emotion outweigh the undoubtedly large amounts of work that go into these big changes? (ie. Rage mechanics, Soul Shards, Ammo etc.)

What is you reasoning behind the Blood Frenzy nerf?

I've got a few more questions:

1. Why not make Arms weapon specialization talent to affect all weapons? Instead let players choose what they prefer. So that we don't need to keep respecing just for the weapon if there is no other better weapon to choose from.
Eg: so now i can choose i want a double strike or armor penetration or crit. Doesn't matter what weapon i am using. This will be good for rogues too.

2. Any chances of buffing warrior shouts instead of spending 5+2 points talent and a glyph to maximize its duration and effect? Or atleast not get overwritten by improve Might?

3. Are there any plans to boost fury pve dps up a little to match other hybrids?

4. Can warriors expect less penalties in their abilities? Eg: increase damage taken after used. So that i can use those abilities in peace in heavy aoe damage fight like Hodir for example.

5. Is there plans to improve slam? Should it do frontal damage in a line like shockwave(warcraft) to imrpove our aoe (Example Suggestion) or something similiar since it needs a cast time.

Thanks again.

Will the Warriors out of date play style ever be re-vamped?

Given that fury warriors have less damage mitigation and in actuality take extra damage when in Berserker stance, why do they do less damage even when dual wielding 2-Handed weapons?

Why consider warriors a hybrid class when a warrior has to spec into a role (i.e. tanks must spec all the way down in protection, dps must spec all the way down into arms or fury) and cannot change roles without re-speccing? (i.e. others can change roles mid fight without a complete re-spec)

Why do warrior tanks have the worst AOE threat generation out of all the tanking classes?

Why do warriors seem to have the least number of good instant attacks and the fewest PvP viable attacks? (have you ever tried using slam or heroic strike on a moving target?)

Why is there so much healing plate, which is only useful for one sub-class?

Why can a palli stun a prot warrior at range and eat right through the warriors armor with magic damage and out dps the warrior, then completely mitigate the warriors physical damage or heal to full instantly?

Why can a DK almost completely mitigate warrior physical damage, out dps the warrior and almost completely ignore the warriors armor with magic damage?

Why can a rogue stun lock a protection warrior to death from 25000+ health?

Why does a protection warrior deal virtually negligible damage, when every other tanking class easily triples it?

Why are fury warriors so tame?

Shouldn't fury warriors have the highest dps out of the "hybrid" class as they sacrifice armor and take an additional 5% damage in order to dual wield 2-Handed weapons?

1. Why was the rage cost reduction removed from Shattering Throw. It's hardly ever used because most classes that have bubbles (paladins, mages) are able to rage-starve us through kiting or their superior armor. This was in the patch notes at one point but got scrapped without any word...

2. Bladestorm - It's been bugged since it first was implemented. You can be death-gripped (always), and sometimes frost novad, blinded, and death coiled (i'm sure other types of CC are possible but these are the ones that I've personally had happen to me.

3. Why are stance limitations still on abilities? It's an out-dated mechanic that causes huge problems for any type of warrior in pvp. For example interrupting while arms.... you need 1 of 2 macros. They either switch to bers. stance and pummel or put on a sword n board and shield bash... both of which are impossible to do with lag in the cast-time of a quick heal (nourish, flash of light, lesser healing wave, etc)

4. Why are pummel and shield bash different cooldown lengths if they're effectively the same talent...?

5. Spell reflect ... you can't cast it while in a Hand of Protection... it's a spell so why is that not possible? I got a HoP in arena and ate a 10k conflagurate because i was unable to spell reflect at the same time.... broken mechanic/

6. Shields being needed for our big defensive cooldowns in pvp.... dismantle does stop us from shield walling / spell reflecting / shield blocking.... it does not stop other classes from using ice bound fortitude, frenzied regen, ice block... you get the idea.

7. Why are mortal strike and bloodthirst on the same cooldown? it would offer a unique playstyle to allow hybrid builds like that.... yet they share teh same cooldown when they are no longer anywhere near the same move in damage or function....

8. Why does sudden death procs apply when the target is below 20%...... Countless times i've gone to execute with full rage and been capped at 3k damage and had 70 rage left over because of a sudden death proc which killed that final burst.

1. ABILITIES: Why are other classes given stronger/better versions of our abilities but ours remain mostly unchanged (dismantle/disarm, ardent defender/last stand, spam of knives/whirlwind, presences/stances, etc)?

Why is our class bloated with abilities that have a very high cooldown for their effect, such as mocking blow, shattering throw, or heroic throw? Why are we bloated with abilities that are very situational, such as shattering throw (again) or victory rush? Some situational abilities fit the class fine, like revenge, but others just clutter up my UI or require a macro so they can be spammed with another ability. Why wasn't divine shield nerfed instead of giving us another high-cooldown, situational ability?

Why is shield bash usable in battle stance, but pummel isn't, when the Arms tree is based around 2 handed weapons? Why is shield bash even an ability when we have pummel? Why can't pummel be usable in all stances? Shield bash is actually a hinderance thanks to dismantle.

2. STANCES: Why are we penalized/taxed so heavily (up to 90 rage, use of a GCD, etc) for using a core, class mechanic? Isn't changing stances to use certain abilities supposed to be part of the class? Most of the time, its not even worth it because of the penalties.

Why do 2 of the 3 stances a warrior has give debuffs when a DK's presence gives them a pure buff? Have you ever considered making the buff from berserker stance something that scales better with a character's level? +3% crit is a lot for level 30, but doesn't have that same effect on the higher levels.

Are there any plans to make changing stances feel more natural to the class, rather than being so macro intensive? This is what usually turns people away from the class.

3. TANKING: Are there any plans to make warrior tanking fun? Its very annoying to have to spam heroic strike every second just to keep up with threat. Vigilance is a boring talent. Can we get somthing more active, than a buff we throw on someone every 30 mins?

Are there any plans to make talents in the Arms and Fury tree viable for tanking also, even for extra damage/threat, such as unreleting assault?

4. ARMS: Are there any plans to make the Arms tree less bloated? The most effective/popular PVP spec right now takes at least 57 points into Arms. Any plans to make the top few Arms talents more useful to the other specs, as well as Arms also (improve heroic strike mostly, but also iron will and tactial mastery)?

Any plans to give Arms a talent to reduce threat? Maybe add something to anger management for this? Why are we supposed to use heroic strike for a dps ability when it causes "a high amount of threat?"

Any plans to change weapon specializations? They worked fine in Diablo II, but weapons in that game were obtained very differently, and it wasn't such a narrow path to obtain the right weapons.

5. FURY: Any plans to make the top tiers of Fury feel less bloated? So many 5-point talents for shouts that give small gains. Unbridled wrath has always been a waste of talent points.

6. SHOUTS: Any plans to make shouts more useful? They mostly get overwritten by other class abilities, such as blessing of might/battle shout and vindication(after next patch)/demoralizing shout. Why can't battle shout and commanding shout work like the DK's horn of winter?

Are there any plans to make shouts more interesting and core to warriors? Why is thunderclap the way it is, instead of a damaging shout?

7. PVP: Any plans to improve our survivability in PVP? We usually need to sacrifice a lot of our damage to use our defensive cooldowns whereas most other classes don't have to, such as a DK's icebound fortitude. We are also the easiest class to CC, which is also extremely frustrating. We have the weakest snare in the game and can be kited by other melee classes, such as rogues, DKs, ret pallies,etc. Any plans to change any of those things?

Is there a chance that with T9 being introduced Shield Block will be given a magic damage reduction talented, so we don't need to wear an old Tier just to be competent for heavy magic damage fights?

Protection Warrior subset of questions

Question 1
We have been told that the dated rage mechanic with respect to Protection Warriors is being "looked at" for a very long time now. Currently it is a substantial problem exemplified by Prot Warriors in an Off-Tank role with limited incoming damage and when players with better gear (T8 / T8.5 for example) are penalized and remain rage starved in 5 man heroics and lower tier instances such as Naxx. Since 3.2 will exacerbate this problem as geared players have incentive to return to dungeons and instances can we expect a change to this rage mechanic flaw for 3.2?

• Question 1b: If the rage mechanic is addressed, would the solution involve rage being received from avoidance as a 'bandaid' until a more final solution can be created? Will the mechanic be changed to allow outgoing damage to generate rage instead of incoming? Will the solution include a combination of both approaches?

Question 2
Protection talents currently have built-in threat and fairly low damage leading to a large disparity between Protection Warrior DPS and virtually all other tanks. Can we look forward to a change from that mechanic to bring us in line with other tanks damage output by increasing talent damage while reducing their innate threat accordingly?

Question 3
Heroic strike spam is a prevalent quality of life issue for Prot warriors, are there plans to resolve this issue for 3.2? If so how will it be addressed and if not what would be the reasoning behind that decision?

Question 4
Currently Protection Warriors must use two talent points in Improved Disciplines as well as using a Glyph of Shield Wall (and Glyph of Last Stand) to benefit from two minute cooldowns. With the release of 3.2 both Deathknights and Paladins will have similar cooldowns every two minutes but without the talent points / glyphs required. Can we expect to see a reduction of Protection Warriors requirements to receive the same cooldowns other classes receive for free in 3.2? If not what is the reasoning behind that decision?

Question 5
Are there any plans to increase the buff duration of Battle and Commanding Shout? If not what is the reasoning behind maintaining such short buff durations when other classes have had similar duration expansions in the past?

Question 6
Is there an expectation for when the block mechanic may be re-designed? If likely not for the 3.2 patch then at least a ballpark time frame after that?

Question 1.
Are you going to increase the damage dealt by mortal strike.

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Q u o t e:
Hits a plate wearer for 1,713, and crits for 3,820.

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So it can be on PAR with the Death Knight ability death strike.

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Q u o t e:
Hits a plate wearer for 2,611, and crits for 6,476.

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or Heart Strike.

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Q u o t e:
Hits a plate wearer for 1,894, and crits for 4,697.

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or Obliterate.

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Q u o t e:
Hits a plate wearer for 2,509, and crits for 6,222.

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Evaluation was taken from thread : http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17367755522&sid=1

Question 2.
Is there any reason a death knight or rogue should be able to double or triple my damage in arena?

Question 3.
Will the changes to resilience gimp rage? and force warriors to be rage deprived for the majority of the fight while a player that has stacked resilience.

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Q u o t e:
Just to clarify, the change to resilience affects ALL player damage. This includes both normal hits and crits. We wanted to keep the proportion of damage coming from hits and crits the same and just reduce damage across the board. Crit damage is lowered twice, but will still contribute the same proportion of damage as it does today.

Quote: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?;tpstart=5 (Resilience Changes in 3.2)

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