I want to make a discussion thread to talk about this issue that has plagued both of our classes. As a hunter I find myself petless, thats where my pet gets killed, due to the insane burst capability of the classes in the game. My mend pet is a hot so it barely even scratches any and all the incoming damage. I even had a healer heal my pet versus a ret paladin and he had a very hard time keeping him alive.

I assume that warlocks will share the same sentiment.

So please discuss so the devs can make appropriate changes so we can atleast have a fighting chance since we are a indeed a pet dependent class(s).

Thanks

Velk

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(any and if all of these abilities are welcome but some are just meant to give hunters and warlocks the ability to make a difference with our pet out)

Hunters

-Make heart of the phoenix a trainable ability that all pets will have access to with a 5 min cool down
-Give every pet class access to hearth of the rhino
-Make mend pet tick for 50% of its worth instantly and the other 50 over time with a 3 second cool down so you wont have hunters spamming this ability.


My idea for warlocks:

-make fel domination a baseline ability on a 5 min cool down (I believe it is a 10 min cool down now)
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^^ I will depend on warlocks on how to help their pets.

bump

Massively merge pet talents. Just look at the damned pet trees. Mediocre/weak talents everywhere and most are multiple pointers. Even a BM hunter spending points into JUST tanking/mitigation talents can't get it all.

Mergers:

1) Greater Stamina + Blood of the Rhino into 2 points.
2) Natural Armor + Pet Barding into 2 points.
3) Grace of the Mantis + Lionhearted + Greater Resistance into 2-3 points. GotM is the only one taken and ONLY because it's required for RoS.
4) Avoidance should be 1 point.

HAH...HAHAH

youre pets are nearly immune to AOE damage and it heals itself. licking wounds and what not?

You could simply recall it, or have the healer heal it.

you could also buff it.

Those critters that you sit on casters and healers, to keep them in combat while you do other things... yea those are fine.

oh and u use them to kill totems without really thinking.

I dont know how to design chars in wow. I do know that both our classes are in dire need of help our defenses and the fact that our dps is crippled without a pet.

If I was to design the pet based classes, I'd factor in the pet after having made sure the char stands a chance verus other classes in terms of dps & survivability without a pet. Make it so that only 1% of damage comes from pets. Take out the offensive abilities from the pets like Spell Lock, Seduce and place it under the master's spells. A pet should only have interrupt abilities via attack or abilities like Dash & Intercept.

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Q u o t e:
HAH...HAHAH

youre pets are nearly immune to AOE damage and it heals itself. licking wounds and what not?

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AoE damage isn't quite that big of a deal outside 5v5. The multi-target damage that DOES happen is usually spread diseases by DK's, which is not affected by Avoidance.

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Q u o t e:
You could simply recall it, or have the healer heal it.

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You can't just "recall it," and healing it is far from "simple" because pets are ridiculously easy switch targets. Players with 22k hp and 700+ resil are complaining about being gibbed; imagine pets with 16k hp and 0 resil. That's not to mention that hunters and warlocks are both heavily reliant on their pet's abilities for defensive and offensive abilities.

Locks...

Succubus - Give her high dodge/parry, she's the Rogue pet after all. Extend her melee range to 10 yards, give Lash of Pain bonus damage when behind a target.

Voidwalker - I like the Sacrifice change, but it still doesn't scale with spell power (AFAIK). Also Locks lack dispel protection, making the shield very easily removed. His HP needs bumped up a little again, the 50-60% scaling nerf was way too harsh.

Felguard - Perhaps remove minimum range with Intercept? Add a single target shadow damage based attack, that shares a cooldown with Cleave. It'd give the Felguard a nice attack against high armor targets in PvP, since he cannot crit them (resilience).

Fel Synergy was repeatedly nerfed to make it a balanced Tier 1 talent. The problem is that the original talent granted additional scaling with Stamina, Armor, and Intellect. The stat increase portion needs added back in, somewhere in deep Demo.

Imp - Can now be used as a cooking fire.

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Q u o t e:
Massively merge pet talents. Just look at the damned pet trees. Mediocre/weak talents everywhere and most are multiple pointers. Even a BM hunter spending points into JUST tanking/mitigation talents can't get it all.

Mergers:

1) Greater Stamina + Blood of the Rhino into 2 points.
2) Natural Armor + Pet Barding into 2 points.
3) Grace of the Mantis + Lionhearted + Greater Resistance into 2-3 points. GotM is the only one taken and ONLY because it's required for RoS.
4) Avoidance should be 1 point.

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i agree with the spirit of your suggestions. there is a lot of bloat.

how that should be handled idk exactly. there should be some discounting of points yes but IMO a better way to solve this is just baseline hunter pet talents at 20 and give BMs a 51 pointer that isn't such a cosmetic piece of crap.

When I came to this post, i assumed it was a QQ about PvE. I wish i could help U for PvP issues. However, locks have a talent that is easy to obtain - it gives 15% of all dmg dealt as a pet heal. I cost 2 talent points and its in the 1st tier. If that isn't enough, we also have health funnel, which can heal the pet very very quickly. It cost me next to nothing HP-wise to give my pet 5-10K HP.

I made a similar post a while back and it died quickly.

I dont think its a coincidence that the classes that are dead last in representation are the two pet classes. Pets are just way too squishy. What is worse is that the dev. are hard at work at killing the pet stomp macro. The macro NEEDS to go but I think the last thing our two classes need atm is another nerf.

Fel dominion is 15min CD unless you spec DEEP into demo our worst pvp tree atm. I find it funny that unholy DKs can bring their pet back soooo easily when they dont depend on them anywhere NEAR what we do (especially when were pet specced). We are the true pet classes I just think we should have alot easier time bringing our pets back than DKs (a pet spec not class).

My suggestions are the same that have been echoed countless times on these forums...pet scaling for stats like resil and spell penetration and decrease the cooldowns of Heart of the phoenix and feldominion to 5mins. Id also like there to be a way for locks to farm shards (to summon our pets)when we are engaging in world pvp in lower lvl areas. I was defending halaa the other night and ran out of shards. I was completely gimp without my pet and could only farm one shard from twilyte ridge.....and i didnt have the time to wait for that ONE mob to respawn.

Id also like Phoenix and fel-dom to both be baseline with talents in the early tiers of BM and demo to reduce the CD to 2min but that is just wishful thinking on my part.

However, these suggestions have been made a MILLION times before. There is no way GC hasnt read them by now and discussed them with his team. To me, the fact that these changes havent been made mean that they dont like these ideas and arent going to implement them anytime soon.

What id like to know is why? Why do they think our bring back the pet abilities deserve longer CDs than divine shield. Why is pets scaling with resil OP? Do they think pets are fine? If not what do they think are the main issues with pets?

I like the Mend Pet suggestion. Tenacity Pets feel almost durable enough with an attentive healer, and being able to instantly heal some damage would help a lot. Ferocity pets have the instant pet res and Lick Your Wounds, but once those are down your pet is hosed. A shorter cooldown on both of those abilities would help a lot, as well as eliminating the bug where dead pets despawn preventing use of Heart of the Phoenix.

Cunning pets on the other hand are still incredibly squishy. I'd like to see Grace of the Mantis in the cunning tree replaced with a new talent that gives pet resilience. Also buffing the damage reduction from Bullheaded would be a great help when pets are being bursted.

Additionally I'd love to see the talent Avoidance applied to damage from Ret Aura and Thorns. With the high attack speed of BM pets especially, with a Cunning pet even with Mend pet at all times, I'm having to recall my pet for 20-30 seconds out of every minute just to keep my pet from killing itself.

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Q u o t e:
HAH...HAHAH

youre pets are nearly immune to AOE damage and it heals itself. licking wounds and what not?

You could simply recall it, or have the healer heal it.

you could also buff it.

Those critters that you sit on casters and healers, to keep them in combat while you do other things... yea those are fine.

oh and u use them to kill totems without really thinking.

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You're an idiot.

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Q u o t e:
Locks...

Succubus - Give her high dodge/parry, she's the Rogue pet after all. Extend her melee range to 10 yards, give Lash of Pain bonus damage when behind a target.

Voidwalker - I like the Sacrifice change, but it still doesn't scale with spell power (AFAIK). Also Locks lack dispel protection, making the shield very easily removed. His HP needs bumped up a little again, the 50-60% scaling nerf was way too harsh.

Felguard - Perhaps remove minimum range with Intercept? Add a single target shadow damage based attack, that shares a cooldown with Cleave. It'd give the Felguard a nice attack against high armor targets in PvP, since he cannot crit them (resilience).

Fel Synergy was repeatedly nerfed to make it a balanced Tier 1 talent. The problem is that the original talent granted additional scaling with Stamina, Armor, and Intellect. The stat increase portion needs added back in, somewhere in deep Demo.

Imp - Can now be used as a cooking fire.

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To me the thing that makes felhunter our best pet is devour magic. It combined with spell lock is insanely good. Felguard pretty much has nothing pvp but intercept stun.

Demo locks mainly put their talents into getting this one pet and hes easily killed and I dont think he helps much in pvp. Furthermore, he still has a spell slot open unlike the rest of our pets. One change that i think would greatly help demo is if he was given the doomguard dispel magic.

Yes its an much much better than devour magic and that is the idea. The one pet we have to spend talent points to get (and is the main focus of the demo tree imho) should be the best pet peroid and giving him dispell magic would accomplish that.

good ideas here

I just dueled a ret pala and he literaly killed my pet in 2 swings (he was already weakened from ret aura and eye for an eye though)

when i think of my pet the only thing that comes to mind that fails as much as it is this guys that made this cover http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1-9Ma3YV_0&feature=related and completely obliterated one of the best songs of the 90's

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Q u o t e:
I want to make a discussion thread to talk about this issue that has plagued both of our classes. As a hunter I find myself petless, thats where my pet gets killed, due to the insane burst capability of the classes in the game. My mend pet is a hot so it barely even scratches any and all the incoming damage. I even had a healer heal my pet versus a ret paladin and he had a very hard time keeping him alive.

I assume that warlocks will share the same sentiment.

So please discuss so the devs can make appropriate changes so we can atleast have a fighting chance since we are a indeed a pet dependent class(s).

Thanks

Velk

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(any and if all of these abilities are welcome but some are just meant to give hunters and warlocks the ability to make a difference with our pet out)

Hunters

-Make heart of the phoenix a trainable ability that all pets will have access to with a 5 min cool down
-Give every pet class access to hearth of the rhino
-Make mend pet tick for 50% of its worth instantly and the other 50 over time with a 3 second cool down so you wont have hunters spamming this ability.


My idea for warlocks:

-make fel domination a baseline ability on a 5 min cool down (I believe it is a 10 min cool down now)
-
-
-

^^ I will depend on warlocks on how to help their pets.

---

All pets need to scale with resilience and spell pen (hit rating?)

It's time.

Seriously.

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Q u o t e:


All pets need to scale with resilience and spell pen (hit rating?)

It's time.

Seriously.

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From what I know hunter pets, not sure about lock pets, scale with hit rating but this is how it works:

you have 7.99% hit rating ----> only 7.00% carries over to our pet....so you need exactly 8% hit rating so your pet gets 8% aswelll.

but resilience and spell pen needs to carry over too

and crit rating, and ArP, and haste, and ....