Warlocks are fine...






















































































In PVE

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Q u o t e:
You wrote:


Right after you wrote:


You do realize there are high rated shadowpriests/moonkins, right? Maybe there's a reason you're not one of them. : (

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im well aware of what i wrote , i can look at a class that i have played against in BGs and arenas and figure out which ones are an utter joke and which are a challenge. I do not base my position solely on how many of them there are worldwide playing at the time for a basis of wether the class is good or not. That is a moronic way of doing this which is also why druids are the way they are right now in the game. druids are as close to godmode as you can get for a healer right now yet blizzard has blatantly posted they will not be nerfed because there representation in arena is low.

Warlocks have multiple escape tools , a few very powerful CC's and very strong burst. What they lack is survivability once there cooldowns are blown. The problem is that warlocks have X amount of ways to create distance and melee have Xx2 ways to prevent or close that distance, but warlock problems are caster problems in general right now. It is a much bigger issue than just "warlocks suckz". The only class that isnt really having an issue is frost mages , and that is simple because they have X x 3 ways of creating distance against melee. The amount of novas / deep freeze / sheeps a mage can put out in rapid succession is insane and should be a model for what the rest of us need to be viable.

I am hoping to gauge how players feel Hunter are right now in PvP, specifically in regards to arena and compared to the other classes. It was my impression that Hunters had the least amount of viability in arenas this season.

Anyone agree / disagree ?

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Q u o t e:



im well aware of what i wrote , i can look at a class that i have played against in BGs and arenas and figure out which ones are an utter joke and which are a challenge. I do not base my position solely on how many of them there are worldwide playing at the time for a basis of wether the class is good or not. That is a moronic way of doing this which is also why druids are the way they are right now in the game. druids are as close to godmode as you can get for a healer right now yet blizzard has blatantly posted they will not be nerfed because there representation in arena is low.

Warlocks have multiple escape tools , a few very powerful CC's and very strong burst. What they lack is survivability once there cooldowns are blown. The problem is that warlocks have X amount of ways to create distance and melee have Xx2 ways to prevent or close that distance, but warlock problems are caster problems in general right now. It is a much bigger issue than just "warlocks suckz". The only class that isnt really having an issue is frost mages , and that is simple because they have X x 3 ways of creating distance against melee. The amount of novas / deep freeze / sheeps a mage can put out in rapid succession is insane and should be a model for what the rest of us need to be viable.

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Personal opinions on classes is more of a fail way to try to balance things then looking at statistics. And its funny that you say that warlocks -are- fine. But still agree that they have problems. Thats not saying they are fine. xD

We dont argue if this is a caster problem or warlock problem in general. The FACT is, that warlocks are doing -terrible- in arena. About to steal the last position on the ladder, and declined from ~6% in s5 to ~4% in s6.

If casters need help, and that fix warlocks, then thats fine. But that doesnt mean warlocks are fine. Either way if it ends up nerfing melee, or buffing casters/warlock. The result will be the same, warlocks will do better.

yeah, i dunno how to fix them though. more mana efficiency?

non dispellable serpent sting would be all kind of crazy vs rogue.

I think I've heard to take stings off of GCD.

yes , I would not advocate any sting being non-dispellable, although absent the presence of a dispeller I guess it already is against rogues, minus vanish.

I think the reversion of some of the mobility nerfs from 3.1 would go a long way. I think mana efficiency is a problem in MM, but SV does ok. From what I understand it is a problem of being trained without enough counters to get back into range.

Snares being normalized might resolve some of it , however that also leads to homogenization which I don't like. I'm fine with a rogue or w/e having superior snares as long as they are not able to contantly apply them with little forsight and zero downfalls. Crip poison and hamstring come to mind ....

I think the reason warlocks needed some confirmation from blizzard is because of the upcoming chaos bolt nerf. Warlocks need to know if this is part of a larger re-balancing effort or if blizzard feels they are too powerful in on live.

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Q u o t e:
I think the reason warlocks needed some confirmation from blizzard is because of the upcoming chaos bolt nerf. Warlocks need to know if this is part of a larger re-balancing effort or if blizzard feels they are too powerful in on live.

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Ghostcrawler actually responded. Saying it right out. No we are not happy with how warlocks do in arena and their representation is to low.

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Q u o t e:
I think its pretty much a given Blizzard isn't happy with how hunters are currently doing in pvp either.

People need to much validation from GC.

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It's part of a process. We pull teeth to get GC to admit X class has a problem. And then it follows there would be a solution to that problem. The community throws stuff out there, it is all ignored, and then X class get's nerfed instead.

This has been my experience with Warlocks.

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Q u o t e:
Ghostcrawler actually responded. Saying it right out. No we are not happy with how warlocks do in arena and their representation is to low.

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And they're nerfing us anyway. See? It followed my formula to the letter.

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Q u o t e:


you dont need mobility when you have the the burst potential that destro locks currently have. You need about 3 seconds to unleash 15k damage without crits.
Throw in fear , even though it now is used on secondary targets , along with demonic circle , a healthstone , and shadowfury.

Affliction is very good in 2s as druid represensation is climbing the charts and warlock is the only hard counter to a druid team. Destro is awesome in 4dps 5s teams which are growing in popularity though 5s is still considered a dead bracket.

3s though either way i will agree warlocks have it bad , but so does any cloth in 3s right now. The bracket is utterly dominated by plate trains and melee dps.

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Thats completely false. We need 5 seconds to do that much, and we need 2x crits (crit rate on players who actually stack resil, is pretty low, assuming the lock is in pvp gear (around 10% or so on Chaos Bolt)
Aff is meh because thanks to the fear nerf afflocks have a very hard time finishing off players, especially with a healer

For clarification: in my furious/deadly gear, my crit rate for destro spells is ~25%.Lets assume 800-something resil, so I lose 10%. Conflagrate gets another 25% from talents. This puts Chaos Bolt at 15%, Conflagrate at 40%. .15*.40=.06, or a 6% of that happening. And the more resil you have, the lower that chance.
Edit edit: I fail at maths. 50%-10% is 40%

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Q u o t e:
We want hunter representation in Arena to be higher than it currently is.

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Woot. Good news i suppose. :)

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Q u o t e:
We want hunter representation in Arena to be higher than it currently is.

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any chance we can get a look into the ideas you've got going or a potential time line (within the context of 3.1.x or are we looking 3.2.x?)?

the recent buffs to dps are ... nice (gift horse, mouth etc) but will do next to nothing for pvp. the revert to disengage was wonderful, thank you, but we still lack.

i'm sure you've read the plethora of ideas on these boards so i won't bore you with reciting them again but idk, we haven't heard much of anything on the subject of positive changes.

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Q u o t e:


you dont need mobility when you have the the burst potential that destro locks currently have. You need about 3 seconds to unleash 15k damage without crits.
Throw in fear , even though it now is used on secondary targets , along with demonic circle , a healthstone , and shadowfury.

Affliction is very good in 2s as druid represensation is climbing the charts and warlock is the only hard counter to a druid team. Destro is awesome in 4dps 5s teams which are growing in popularity though 5s is still considered a dead bracket.

3s though either way i will agree warlocks have it bad , but so does any cloth in 3s right now. The bracket is utterly dominated by plate trains and melee dps.

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Burst potential? I consider burst instant which we as locks have few that are not dots. 3 seconds to do 15k dps without crits im thinking your a bit off sir 1.5 immolate cast gcd conflag (if it isn't instantly dispelled),another gcd 2 second chaos bolt so my math counts around 5.5 seconds and your hoping for crits. And just so everyone knows warlocks in pvp gear have very low crit so chances of 15k on 3 spells is really low. And all of our spells but shadow fury and conflag are easily silenced kicked yadda yadda yadda. destro is only viable in 5's...

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Q u o t e:
We want hunter representation in Arena to be higher than it currently is.

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While its nice to hear that you would like hunter and warlock representation to be higher. Are you ACTUALLY doing anything to change this in the very near future?

Cause I know that I would like hunter and warlock representation to be higher in Arena also, but wants hardly ever get fulfilled.

If by 5.5 seconds, you mean 3.5 then yes. GCD starts when you start casting, not when a cast finishes. In addition most destro locks have 25-30% crit in their pvp setup. I guess you haven't tried or faced destro/rogue in 2s where the comp does very well.

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Q u o t e:
We want hunter representation in Arena to be higher than it currently is.

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Then why so 3.1?

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Q u o t e:
We want hunter representation in Arena to be higher than it currently is.

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Ahh... but the more important (to me) question.

Are Paladins too high? Do you want Paladins lower or do you just want warlocks and hunters higher?

IMO Keep up the good work. You've made the first class to ever be viable with 3 talent trees at once. Often classes go through spurts of 2 then 1 then 2 then 1 as viable, even pure classes can have 2 specs at once viable. But now you've got a class with 3 viable specs. So don't go nerfin that.

Obviously, number speaking, Paladins will have to be lower if you want warlocks and hunters higher. But there's a large difference between wanting Paladins to be lower, and wanting hunters/locks to be higher, imo.

Ya, I do not see a lot of high crit locks anymore. From what I have seen, that is long gone.