World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3

Johnlemon

< Exalted With Ebay >

Blackhand

81. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:11:47 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Season 2-6 in 3s. And to some extent always been in the top 5s comp, or the 2nd best (locks/mages rotate it's weird).

Being in the top comp doesn't mean dominating. Mages are always 10% or less. Dominating is 30% warriors/druids like all of BC or 40% pallies and dk's like S5. The only reason mages have "dominating" comps is the fact they are pigeon holed into 1 or 2 comps.

Johnlemon

< Exalted With Ebay >

Blackhand

82. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:13:40 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Who cares if we were good in s1-s4? Is that now? No. So who gives a flying dump?

This kind of nerf makes me pissed because I see way more overpowered talents and abilities from other classes but they remain as they are... Fallacy!

Because "Omg it's the end of the world!!" QQ is funny when a class is always good (except S5) and act like blizzard has it out for them. Doesn't really make sense. If anybody can claim blizz has it out for them it would be shaman or hunters.

Bottleowater

< So Go Solo Scholo IM… >

Darrowmere

83. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:16:29 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Being in the top comp doesn't mean dominating. Mages are always 10% or less. Dominating is 30% warriors/druids like all of BC or 40% pallies and dk's like S5. The only reason mages have "dominating" comps is the fact they are pigeon holed into 1 or 2 comps.

Thing is, mages have always been a very good class, but not a very easy one.

Top mages of the past, are still top. Simple as that.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darrowmere&n=Revolushion (druid)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darrowmere&n=Bottleodum (warrior)
and Dpsimosucks (shaman)

Johnlemon

< Exalted With Ebay >

Blackhand

84. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:21:51 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Thing is, mages have always been a very good class, but not a very easy one.

Top mages of the past, are still top. Simple as that.

I agree. it just seems like some classes are op'd for such a long time they feel entitled to easy wins and high rep.

Bottleowater

< So Go Solo Scholo IM… >

Darrowmere

85. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:25:31 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

I agree. it just seems like some classes are op'd for such a long time they feel entitled to easy wins and high rep.

Wrath of the Lich King for the win.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darrowmere&n=Revolushion (druid)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darrowmere&n=Bottleodum (warrior)
and Dpsimosucks (shaman)

Chaosrealm

< Addiction >

Blackhand

86. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:28:23 PM PDT

Jezz, Warriors are crying again that they have it bad and blizz is out to get them...wow....
Boohoo, You got like 9% rep, Woohoo..I hate to be the one to tell you this, But thats alot more rep than my class has. Hunters have like...1% in rep right now..and your complaining b/c you went down to 9%?

Sometimes I pick a gnome warrior up and just throw them at the enemy line. Its like a cannon ball of blades and teeth. The screams of "By the Warchief, GET IT OFF ME!!" are quite satisfying.

²]¤[²

Kerberus

Whisperwind

87. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:28:58 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Thing is, mages have always been a very good class, but not a very easy one.

Top mages of the past, are still top. Simple as that.

There are two things that decides if a class is "easy".

Easy/hard to play.

Easy/hard to master.

I think the mage is reasonably difficult to both play and master.

Resto druids are very easy to play, very hard to master.

Warriors are easy to play, hard to master.

Classes who are "hard to play" in general doesn't do very well in arena. But like you said, top mages are still top.

Socrux

< Quality Over Quantit… >

Kil'jaeden

88. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/26/2009 10:31:54 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

adding 5 seconds to this talent is the wrong way to go...talents are meant to be beneficial...yet, we now have an inherent drawback from taking a talent?

We had a talent called playing with fire. It used to be the only talent that had an inherent drawback. It still does.
Then we got burnout, another talent where we are given something bad with the good.
You know, I still have both talents. I wonder why. Oh, right, because they're still overall beneficial.

Sooo, I hear you have a talent thats a DPS boost in your fury tree, and a talent that lets you charge in combat every 20s where you could previously charge in combat every infinity seconds. Sound like beneficial tralents to me.

I rant.

- The Late Ataraxia of Twisting Nether

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

89. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:04:53 AM PDT

I didn't see a better thread than this one right now to post this in.

The problem was that Arms warriors with Juggernaut still had Intercept. We think it's fine to use those back to back once, which is basically what this change will do. The problem we were having is a warrior could keep bouncing back and forth between a couple of targets, keeping them both stunned which incidentally also interrupted casting. The casters were just never getting a chance to get spells off. Their only recourse felt like crowd control, but of course caster CC is typically magic based and could be dispelled, while warrior stuns and snares are much harder to get out of.

Getting up on a caster quickly is awesome, which is why we created the talent. Using Charge in combat is cool and useful. Using Charge in combat constantly is pretty brutal to casters. We thought about just increasing the cooldown of Charge itself so that the talent didn't feel like it had a drawback (because we have certainly heard from warriors unhappy with the Titan's Grip penalty). However we felt that was an unfair nerf to the leveling warrior or the tank who use Charge regularly just to solve a PvP balance problem.

We knew that removing the in-combat charge from Juggernaut would totally kill the talent and the idea, which is why we didn't do it. That is what I meant by nerfing it into the ground, though apparently some players interpreted that as meaning barely getting nerfed at all.

We knew it would be a controversial change, which is why we wanted to go ahead and get it posted ahead of time. This patch is small so it won't go up on the PTR, yet we didn't want it to feel like a stealth nerf if it just went in one morning unannounced.

As always, you don't have to agree with the decision and you can use these forums to do so. Just keep the criticism constructive and relatively professional. People who can't help themselves and respond inappropriately will be asked not to post again.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Sojiro

Feathermoon

90. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:06:33 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
first again

Edit: Juggernaut did that exactly, I couldn't get spells off or get away if they were coupled with a deathknight.

P.S please take a look at possible arcane mana replenishment for pve!

[ Post edited by Sojiro ]

These forums are like a painting that everyone contributes to. Stop wiping poop on the canvas.

Wickleer

< Kindred Chaos >

Lothar

92. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:07:19 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
I didn't see a better thread than this one right now to post this in.

The problem was that Arms warriors with Juggernaut still had Intercept. We think it's fine to use those back to back once, which is basically what this change will do. The problem we were having is a warrior could keep bouncing back and forth between a couple of targets, keeping them both stunned which incidentally also interrupted casting. The casters were just never getting a chance to get spells off. Their only recourse felt like crowd control, but of course caster CC is typically magic based and could be dispelled, while warrior stuns and snares are much harder to get out of.

Yes but when a warrior does this, they don't have any rage to put any pressure on anyone because they are stance dancing. That's the balance.

Sherlock Goat

Saidant

Blackrock

93. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:10:45 AM PDT

Charge and Intercept sharing the same CD would have been a better idea, I think.

Iansane

< Vitare >

Barthilas

94. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:10:49 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Yes but when a warrior does this, they don't have any rage to put any pressure on non-cloth because they are stance dancing. That's the balance.

Sojiro

Feathermoon

95. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:12:21 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Yes but when a warrior does this, they don't have any rage to put any pressure on anyone because they are stance dancing. That's the balance.

All they need is someone else to apply the pressure.

These forums are like a painting that everyone contributes to. Stop wiping poop on the canvas.

Sujiro

< Brewtown >

Lightning's Blade

96. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:12:40 AM PDT

Can we at least have our 100% crit back on it then?

btw disengage cooldown is 16 seconds

I call BS

Your designers are stupid.

[ Post edited by Sujiro ]

Smith

< Twisted Fate >

Stonemaul

97. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:12:47 AM PDT

GC - As in your post you mentioned we can use both charge and intercept. I can accept this, but you don't acknowledge the downside of using intercept is also losing all the rage we have. See'ing as intercept will be used a lot more, is there any plan on not making this penalty so extreme?

Common sense is common.
Wait, what?

George

< Paradosi >

Kargath

98. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:15:42 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
I didn't see a better thread than this one right now to post this in.

I did:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17367759889&sid=1

PvE matters as well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J2pJz_baD8

Gustu

< Infallible >

Eonar

99. Re: New Jug Is Totally Unacceptable 3.1.3 05/27/2009 12:16:05 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Can we at least have our 100% crit back on it then?

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