You seem to have been convinced in some way that Holy Paladinnies don't 'care about regen stats'.

That's fine, don't go around saying such things though.
I care very much about regen, but Crit is not a regen but a refund of mana you already committed. Do you consider your Tax Return a source of income?

With the introduction of Divine Plea, the new Hymn of Hope, and Replenishment, it is safe to say (since you yourself have said that replenishment is considered to be present in every raid) that Intellect IS a regen stat.

Spirit is still a better regen stat for the healers who have it available, and every class get's appropriate bonuses via Spiritual Guidance, Nature's Blessing, and Improved Tree of Life for stacking their specific regen stat.

I feel that this crusade against Paladin Healers is unjust and if you could take another step back, take your dev team, and run Ulduar on some premades (given everyone knows how to play correctly, but honestly I sometimes wonder with some of the patches you guys roll out) then you will see that each class has a specific role. While not all roles are quite as pigeon-holed as a Holy Paladin, I do believe that this is as about even as you will let us become.

What if paladins are also ignoring spellpower?

I'd say the holy paladin is in a real pickle.

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Q u o t e:


Oh, come on. All of these "If you'd just play my class, you'd understand" comments are a bit silly. We designed your class. We know how it works.

The issue that started all this was paladins saying "We don't want MP5 on our gear." The designers designed you assuming you'd have MP5 on your gear -- I know; I was there. If you are effective without having MP5 then it probably means you are going to be too powerful at some point because you are able to replace a less-powerful stat with a more powerful one without missing the loss of the less-powerful one.

Imagine you could prune every less-useful stat off your gear. Imagine you could trade in armor, Stamina and everything else for just spell power and crit. Do you think you'd blow away the other healers? I do. That's more extreme than giving up MP5 for more crit, but carries similar risks from a game-balance perspective.

Healers should care about Spirit (druids and priests) and MP5 (paladins and shamans). It's fine to care about Int and crit too, but if you're ignoring Spirit and MP5 and aren't missing them, then something isn't working right.

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Don't need Spell Power when all you can do is brute force with Holy Light spam.

Mostly I'm just hoping whatever changes to regen come down the pipe also add some finesse/complexity/options to the paladin healing playstyle.

The devs learned long ago that spamming a single spell isn't fun.

So help us quit, pls. D:

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Oh, come on. All of these "If you'd just play my class, you'd understand" comments are a bit silly. We designed your class. We know how it works.

The issue that started all this was paladins saying "We don't want MP5 on our gear." The designers designed you assuming you'd have MP5 on your gear -- I know; I was there. If you are effective without having MP5 then it probably means you are going to be too powerful at some point because you are able to replace a less-powerful stat with a more powerful one without missing the loss of the less-powerful one.

Imagine you could prune every less-useful stat off your gear. Imagine you could trade in armor, Stamina and everything else for just spell power and crit. Do you think you'd blow away the other healers? I do. That's more extreme than giving up MP5 for more crit, but carries similar risks from a game-balance perspective.

Healers should care about Spirit (druids and priests) and MP5 (paladins and shamans). It's fine to care about Int and crit too, but if you're ignoring Spirit and MP5 and aren't missing them, then something isn't working right.

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Blow away other healers on what? Not healing meters that is for sure. Overhealing...wait we already win that one.

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Q u o t e:


Oh, come on. All of these "If you'd just play my class, you'd understand" comments are a bit silly. We designed your class. We know how it works.

The issue that started all this was paladins saying "We don't want MP5 on our gear." The designers designed you assuming you'd have MP5 on your gear -- I know; I was there. If you are effective without having MP5 then it probably means you are going to be too powerful at some point because you are able to replace a less-powerful stat with a more powerful one without missing the loss of the less-powerful one.

Imagine you could prune every less-useful stat off your gear. Imagine you could trade in armor, Stamina and everything else for just spell power and crit. Do you think you'd blow away the other healers? I do. That's more extreme than giving up MP5 for more crit, but carries similar risks from a game-balance perspective.

Healers should care about Spirit (druids and priests) and MP5 (paladins and shamans). It's fine to care about Int and crit too, but if you're ignoring Spirit and MP5 and aren't missing them, then something isn't working right.

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If your going to make Paladins want Mp5 again then you've also got to make FoL useful again. Atm there is absolutely no reaso to use it, and its not just because Regen is just too high. The amount of healing power required + glyphs means in every level of content Pallies live and die by Holy Light.

Im all for making Holy Pallies want MP5 again, but until you do something to make FoL worth casting, or give Holy Pallies another way to AOE heal in Heroics ( glyph) there still gonna spam Holy Light. Its just that once they are forced to stack MP5 there gonna run out of fuel quickly.

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He's clearly talking about the game mechanics from a Meta perspective.

Unfortunately I suspect you have no clue what that means.

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I understand perfectly, its just simply irrelevant to talk about paladins blowing people away, because you cant stack them regardless.

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Q u o t e:

Oh, come on. All of these "If you'd just play my class, you'd understand" comments are a bit silly. We designed your class. We know how it works.

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That statement will come back at you I hope you know.

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Q u o t e:


Oh, come on. All of these "If you'd just play my class, you'd understand" comments are a bit silly. We designed your class. We know how it works.

The issue that started all this was paladins saying "We don't want MP5 on our gear." The designers designed you assuming you'd have MP5 on your gear -- I know; I was there. If you are effective without having MP5 then it probably means you are going to be too powerful at some point because you are able to replace a less-powerful stat with a more powerful one without missing the loss of the less-powerful one.

Imagine you could prune every less-useful stat off your gear. Imagine you could trade in armor, Stamina and everything else for just spell power and crit. Do you think you'd blow away the other healers? I do. That's more extreme than giving up MP5 for more crit, but carries similar risks from a game-balance perspective.

Healers should care about Spirit (druids and priests) and MP5 (paladins and shamans). It's fine to care about Int and crit too, but if you're ignoring Spirit and MP5 and aren't missing them, then something isn't working right.

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GC

Right now we do not have the choice but to spam Holy light. FoL dont heal enough, its simple and you know it. The average damage on a MT will be around 15-20k. On mimiron phase 2 the raid take 2k hits from the lazer so instead of casting 1 FoL on evrybody we spam HL and hope theres enough people around our target to benefit from our glyph *aoe* effect.

I would like to be able to use all my tools, but right now its simple. SS on the tank + spam HL until the boss die.

The only way we found to be able to do so is by staking what will help our mana pool to stay full. Mp5 right now is not good enough to exchange all the crit and int we have for it. Dont get me wrong i use mp5 (i dont have a choice you give me gears full of it) but if i can get my hands on a piece full of int/crit i will go for it. Sorry shammies!

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Buff chain heal

All I do in ulduar is LHW / riptide snipe.

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I WANT A PONY!

I SAW BLUE TEXT, SO I KNOW YOU'RE WATCHING THIS GC!

GIVE ME A PONY NOW!

Although if you admit that mp5 is an inferior stat you want us to like essentially to bloat up our item budget, why is so so costly compared to other bloat stats? Isn't it about the most expensive stat in game for something that doesn't even scale? I mean you guys wound up getting rid of Health per 5 because it was poorly designed, I think mp5 sort of suffers the same problems, which is what makes people be so revolted by it in a way that spirit, stam or even AC aren't. And this is coming from a paladin who has more mp5 than most would tolerate.

Besides, if you had just sp and crit your health would be so low you'd be killed constantly by AOE. No need for hyperbole here. Stamina might not be the most interesting stat, but people can at least see where having a few more stamina pieces can be useful. People have sacrificed armor before, but honestly the differences between armor levels usually aren't high enough to draw too much scorn.

I think the problem is just how far the pendulum swung. If there was more of a happy medium or a second yellow slot the gains might feel more meaningful versuses the losses. But suboptimal stat break downs paired with suboptimal slots and suboptimal set bonuses makes tier 8 underwhelming. I also hated it since it's first sketch in the art book and hoped it would be for shaman, but knew as a paladin I was probably screwed as all the good holy ideas go to priests most of the time.

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we cast holy light, not because we can, but because we can't afford to cast anything else. We spec, gear, gem, chant, flask.... we do EVERYTHING we can to support that heal because, and this is important, nothing else we have can do the job

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Really, Blizzard needs to make paladin healing less redundant before even considering changing anything else. The fact that they say they're not OK with DPS spamming one button and then completely ignore what holy paladins have been doing for ages now is annoying, and now they're talking about nerfing our regen? That would not only destroy us in heroics but make it even harder for new paladins to get started.

Oh yeah, and if paladins were designed to have MP5 on our gear then why is every piece of tier 7 and most of our T7 off-set pieces perfectly itemized? That statement makes no sense whatsoever, if T7 was itemized like T8 you might have an argument, but at this point it's safe to say you're essentially lying to us with that comment.

We also get out-healed sometimes to a degree of 3 to 1 by ALL OTHER HEALING CLASSES, with RET PALADINS being near our effective healing during raids, and you're thinking about nerfing our regen? Maybe we're effective because we can't put out the tens of millions of effective healing like other classes can. Blizzard says that we should run OOM at the same time, but when you have a class AoE healing for millions more than you, I think it's OK if they run OOM before we do. More healing = OOM faster, as opposed to "We should all run OOM at the same time!!!!".

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Q u o t e:
The issue that started all this was paladins saying "We don't want MP5 on our gear." The designers designed you assuming you'd have MP5 on your gear -- I know; I was there. If you are effective without having MP5 then it probably means you are going to be too powerful at some point because you are able to replace a less-powerful stat with a more powerful one without missing the loss of the less-powerful one.

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So all in all, it started with Healadins QQ, and will end up in Healadins QQ once they get nerfed. Well done guys, you got what you were looking for. You didn't want mp5 on your gear, well now you'll get even more of it because you made the developpers realize how overpowered your mana regen really is.

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Q u o t e:
Oh, come on. All of these "If you'd just play my class, you'd understand" comments are a bit silly. We designed your class. We know how it works.

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Having worked with a few too many engineers in my time, I lol'ed.

(And this comment has no bearing whatsoever on this conversation, so I'll shush now =P)