gratz, hunters need this.

Thanks for the notice, GC. I'll keep an eye out on our WowMeter number to see if there's any appreciable difference. Hopefully we'll see that few percent uptick in damage (as long as it's not lost in the noise of a fight.)

So will this hotfix show in the weapon tooltips, or will they display incorrectly until next patch?

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Q u o t e:
The developers believe hunter dps is too low, so today we are implementing a change to ranged weapon damage to improve dps across the board.

Bows, crossbows and guns of item level 226 or higher (which means weapons from Kel'Thuzad, Ulduar and the Furious Gladiator pieces) will do around 30 more dps. This should translate to a hunter damage increase of a few percent.

We don't think this will be quite sufficient in boosting hunter dps to where we think it needs to be and we have another buff that we plan to get in sometime over the next couple of weeks. We'll announce that change when it gets closer. (We have some plans for other classes as well, but we ask that you please keep this thread on the topic of hunters and the ranged weapon changes.)

As hunters may recall, we had an ambitious plan to change the way ammo worked for 3.1 that ended up being overly ambitious, causing us to scale back. However as part of that change, we stopped itemizing bullets and arrows. Since hunters could not upgrade from the ammo available at the launch of Lich King, their damage had started and would continue to fall behind as other classes upgraded their gear. This change basically incorporates the ammo damage into the weapons -- as you get better ranged weapons, it's as if you got better ammo to go along with them. This is likely to be a design we continue for the next few tiers of content until we have the opportunity to overhaul ammo completely.

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If you are ever in MI, I will buy you a shot of gin...granted, the next time we are nerfed or rebalanced, I reserve the right to take it back :)

Much appreciated and it goes a long way in validating thoughts on hunter DPS. I know you cannot say, but it would be since to get an indication on if the next buff is a spec/spell specific or general mechanics change.

So I read this right, because ammo is not going to change yet, raiding hunter who want to maximize dps will still need to shell 45-60 bars of saronite a week on top of everything else? :(

Would it not be easier to just remove ammo and have ranged weapons follow 2-hand weapon dps tables?

Just as a note GC; your copy of this thread (in the Hunter forums) is locked but still contains the disclaimer to keep the thread focussed on hunters.

In other news, woohoo my alt will kill world mobs even faster, hehe.

"next few tiers" QQ, we want our shiny new ammo graphics now ;D

I see... this is a scaling problem from Naxx25 up, so no need to touch lower level weapons. Something to look forward too even more in Ulduar tonight, then...

As part of the future ammo revamp, I do hope you'll take into consideration player stockpiles of Mammoth Cutters, etc, when you make the changeover. I, for one, would greatly appreciate enough of a warning to use up my considerable ammo supply, and to stop getting more, if the revamp makes them not needed.

I know you can't tell us when something is going to happen, as some people take the occassional inevitable slippage badly. But perhaps we can be told if the ammo changes WON'T be live in a given future patch? As I read this, we won't see ammo changes in 3.2 or 3.3... 'The next few tiers of content'.

---

Q u o t e:
The developers believe hunter dps is too low, so today we are implementing a change to ranged weapon damage to improve dps across the board.

Bows, crossbows and guns of item level 226 or higher (which means weapons from Kel'Thuzad, Ulduar and the Furious Gladiator pieces) will do around 30 more dps. This should translate to a hunter damage increase of a few percent.

We don't think this will be quite sufficient in boosting hunter dps to where we think it needs to be and we have another buff that we plan to get in sometime over the next couple of weeks. We'll announce that change when it gets closer. (We have some plans for other classes as well, but we ask that you please keep this thread on the topic of hunters and the ranged weapon changes.)

As hunters may recall, we had an ambitious plan to change the way ammo worked for 3.1 that ended up being overly ambitious, causing us to scale back. However as part of that change, we stopped itemizing bullets and arrows. Since hunters could not upgrade from the ammo available at the launch of Lich King, their damage had started and would continue to fall behind as other classes upgraded their gear. This change basically incorporates the ammo damage into the weapons -- as you get better ranged weapons, it's as if you got better ammo to go along with them. This is likely to be a design we continue for the next few tiers of content until we have the opportunity to overhaul ammo completely.

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So this is meant as more of a 25man DPS increase. Are you guys seeing that Hunter DPS in 10man raids are around where you like them to be to exclude the i219 weapons? Thanks

*edit. Also wondering why my avatar only shows me as level 73?

GC:

Thank you very much for the boost. I am sure I speak for many when I say that our frustrations were running high because of the apparent disconnect between what is being stated to what we were experiencing. This goes a long way to reassure the community.

You once noticed that warlocks had too many buttons to press with their affliction spec. It got to a point where it wasn't as fun for the class in keeping their DPS up. To an extent, the hunter class has become like that. Using the most prevalent survival spec as a reference, our shot priorities are something like:

Black Arrow
Kill Shot (if avail)
Explosive Shot
Aimed/Multi shot
Serpent Sting
Steady

Maintaining this is extremely difficult, but it is doable - but the class has lost some of it's appeal. I know that there are people here who will disagree with me, but when 3.1 came out, I was the first to notice and comment on how difficult it would be keep this rotation up. Even for stationary encounters, this is difficult to do at best. Throw in latency and low frame rates (due to extensive AoE now), and it is impossible to produce competitive dps.

Is there anyway we can merge some of these shots? Or modify the mechanics? I would like to see more proc based attacks. We have lock and load, which is an excellent mechanic and we need more of this type of thing. I'd also like to suggest a stacking debuff that, when it reaches is maximum level, a special shot becomes active to do some significant damage. I have a few suggestions which I could post in a separate thread, but my main concern is with the feasibility of the current hunter mechanic within realistic raid contexts.

Question if available--- is the upcoming ammo change intended to correct the extreme prices of engineer-crafted ammo?

Thank god I finally saw an Envoy drop on my 13th KT kill. Unlucky number my arse.

So im assuming this is a hotfix, that should be implemented today or the next day or two? Not a future mini patch aka 3.1.3 etc...

Unless you consider hunter dps to be too low in 25 man raids, and only in 25 man raids, please consider buffing ranged weapon dps to item levels of 213 and above so that those that kill Kel'Thuzad in 10 mans won't feel obligated to pug 25 man Naxx just to get a decent ranged weapon. I feel it's very odd that not only is there a large discrepancy between current 10 man and 25 man weapons, but this will widen the gap enormously. Please consider either buffing ranged weapons of item level 213 and above, or consider making changes to ammo instead -- perhaps cheap, high dps ammo that can only be used with a weapon of item 213 and above so that fresh level 80 hunters aren't op and so that there is no need for a rep grind requirement to purchase it.

However, if you really do feel that hunter dps in 10 man raids is fine whereas it's low in 25 man raids, then I suppose 10 man hunter dps will just have to stay the same.

Awesome cakes! my guild pulled me through a friends and alts 25 man naxx two weeks ago and i got KT's gun, which isn't bad for a battleground grinder like me and now i get a free dps upgrade woot!