---

Q u o t e:


Discussion is always good. We'll try to answer the questions we can. Just keep in mind, for some, they may not get the answers they want, but that doesn't mean we won't take in all of the feedback and keep it in mind.

---

Just out of curiosity, have you guys even realized that health for Shaman across the board is very low compared to all other classes (omg especially Enhance compared to all other melee)? Can you guys fix this? Read my other post for a post that sums it up so well.

Erm.... all of it?

Just start reading the threads.... There are tonnes of them outlining issues the Shaman class is having right now. That your actually asking this frightens me greatly because it tends to indicate that NO ONE in Blue is keeping on top of what the issues are that a) Shaman are posting about and b) that we perceive we have.

What about Shaman base HP being the lowest of all the classes? Lets start with that one. Currently we have the lowest base HP of any of the classes, the least amount of defensive measures, and due to both arguably the worst survivability in both PVE and PVP. No other class has to make the decision between DPSing and Healing. As enhancement when we have to use an MW5 stack to instant heal ourselves our DPS drops significantly. Raid leaders do NOT like low dps regardless of the reason for it. In the time between dinging 80 and having t7.5 Ive gained a whole 1.5k hp. Sure I can pick up some talents to increase this further but where exactly am I going to get the points FROM to put into it.... And in doing so I will be reducing my DPS further. Go ahead and data mine this. Check enhancement shaman builds and you tell me that this is a popular talent.

The lower base HP becomes MUCH more noticeable in PVP. 3-4k hp makes a huge amount of difference there and sure we can get more out of PVP gear. So we get it... the problem THERE is that everyone ELSES health is scaling higher as well... And even better as you get higher and higher levels of Resilience Enhancement DPS (for example) gets lower and lower. So while we may be able to survive longer our burst potential takes a significant hit at high resilience levels. So now that we have the HP we CANT kill anything.... and if we do its largely going to be because the opponent made a mistake... Like going AFK. Speaking of burst....

Why cant Enhancement Shaman talents allow for the use of 2h weapons? Why? WHY? There is zero reason for this. You gave us 2h weapons as a base skill however at the same time you removed ANY reason for Shaman to actually USE a 2hander. How in the name of God does that make ANY sense? Well it does.... You gave us the base-skill to placate us and than gutted any use we had for it. Let me be clear on this... In removing the ability of Enhancement shaman to utilize 2handers you effectively gutted the burst potential Enhancement shaman have in PVP. I really dont see any reason that 2handers cant be made viable for Enhancement shaman... None. Not with the level of burst damage currently in the game and sure as hell not when I can run ANY BG and see Paladins, Warlocks, Mages, DKs, well pretty much everyone throwing up insane amounts of damage on the leaderboard. Interesting note on this... WSG... 20 minute match roughly... Alliance paladin broke 1 million damage (and change). Next closest was Horde DK at about 900k damage give or take... I came in at about 430k damage. Ya.

ARGH...

You want to know what we want answers to? Ill give ya the questions....

When is our base hp going to be looked at?
When are shaman going to get their time "in the sun"?
When are we going to be viewed as threats in the BG/Arena INSTEAD of easy kills?
When is a Developer actually going to take the time to experience what its like to play a Shaman both in PVE and PVP?
When are we going to get ACTUAL class fixes instead of "adjustments" to talents etc?
When is the issue of "On Crit" reliant talents/dps going to be fixed where Resilience is concerned?
When are Totems going to get a once over?
When are Totems going to be unique again?
(follow up)
IF Totems are NOT going to be changed significantly what is going to be done to compensate the class for the homogenization of something that is "Iconic" to the class?
When is survivability in PVP and PVE going to be addressed for the class as a whole?

And thats just the ones off the top of my head.... I havent even had a full cup of coffee and I came up with those...

---

Q u o t e:


there are hybrid specs wrecking us on ulduar DPS charts with some fights having as much as a 50% DPS difference between the elemental shaman and the hybrid in question, let me list them

all DK specs
feral druids
arms warriors

i don't think i need to mention that rogues, mages, locks do WAY more damage than the supposed "5% hybrid tax"

---

No! Maybe you should join another guild since you cant seem to keep up with the dps in yours. I have no problem being top 5 on EVERY boss. Ive seen your posts and I know your response "lolz ur dps needz to L2P lolz". You are doing something seriously wrong since you complain about not breaking top 10.

---

Q u o t e:


No! Maybe you should join another guild since you cant seem to keep up with the dps in yours. I have no problem being top 5 on EVERY boss. Ive seen your posts and I know your response "lolz ur dps needz to L2P lolz". You are doing something seriously wrong since you complain about not breaking top 10.

---

alright bro tell us your secrets for hitting the rogue/feral/dk DPS of 6-8k on fights with

- no adds/multiple targets
- no damage gimmick buff
- no haste gimmick buff

i'll wait here for your response

---

Q u o t e:


Could you get more specific about the types of PvP answers you're looking for? Are you looking for mobility, dps, survivability out of it?

---

We'd love to get our class review. Our last one was kinda borked due to our multi-page feedback not getting to the devs in time for the review and it getting pushed back over and over again. (old Bus-shock days and other immature stupidity ensued around this time from both sides)

All three trees have pvp survivability issues.
All three trees have DPS/healing scaling issues.

Moving Toughness and Astral Shift to a place where all shaman could actually get to both (low enh for Toughness, low Astral for ele) would, in many ways, fix the survivability issues. Resto would have to pick one, but they're the best of the survival already and giving them both would put them too close to the other healers. =D

Resto needs a unique "remove MS" or "bypass MS on crits" effect. We don't have bubbles (absorb/immunity to melee unaffected by MS effects) and we don't have multiple levels of CC (Cyclone x 3 and root x 3 and bear charge) so that MS can "fall off." Resto needs help in this department.

Make Disease/poison totems give you cleanse + a 1 second immunity on at 3 second pulse. Right now poisons and diseases can be applied faster than cleared and if you're clearing you're not healing.
Against, Abolish Poison > totems and bubbles clear those effects or are not affected by those debuffs and other classes have ways to buy time (HoJ/Repentance, Cyclone/roots, fear.) Every other healer has ways to work around/mitigate those effects. Hex doesn't cut it because 1) long-ish cast time 2) Allows control so the offending melee just stays right in range and 3) long recast time. Shaman Frozen Power is too deep in Enhancement to give any help to Elemental/Resto.

DPS is mainly a function of 'movement' and 'cast times.' Giving Shaman "Astral Weapons" some ability to apply MS or bypass redux effects would be a big gain.

WF CD needs to be removed.

DK/Warrior/Paladin already burst WAY higher harder so our 2hnd pvp viability needs to be looked at.

Really, we just need to have (finally) our class review.

Thank you!

-Me

---

Q u o t e:


Discussion is always good. We'll try to answer the questions we can. Just keep in mind, for some, they may not get the answers they want, but that doesn't mean we won't take in all of the feedback and keep it in mind.

---

Which is more than fair, to be honest, I can't remember the last times shamans had a blue to discuss anything with, but thats probably just because I don't troll the forums enough lol, and everyone needs their chance to talk.


Anyways.


I love the shaman class, its a hard class to play correctly, and even harder to be competitive in PvP with them. As my time as enh, and ele in PvP the one thing I die to most are stuns. I don't mind dying in rogue stuns, thats their class, its what they do. I would like some (more) defense against these stuns. My idea, which I have already said, would be to let us drop totems while stunned. This would mean we could take advantage of our stoneclaw glyph and get our fire nova totem down to interupt their damage rotation.

On that note, fire nova totem. Could there be a talent to shorten the time it takes to explode perhaps? You could even make it a talent to drop totems while stunned, I would find this extremely helpful for PvP.

That about sums up the few major problems I have with this class. Honestly I don't mind totems only having 5 HP, it would be nice to see a change here but not nearly as important.

Edit: LOL, ok yeah sorry about my mistakes, I'm typing on a laptop and I keep hitting the mouse touch pad.

---

Q u o t e:


We'd love to get our class review.

---

^^This.

Its long LONG overdue. O and lower the internal CD on Windfury to 1 second. Would be nice to use a 2hander in PVP again... Oo

---

Q u o t e:

Come on now. It's easy to try to say we're hiding things since we (despite our best efforts) are indeed human and can miss things, however, we don't purposefully do so. It's also important for everyone that comes across a possible discrepancy in how something works to let us know about it in case there was an unintentional change or a bug involved.

---

Is there any reason Pallies and Druids are topping (or rather getting close to) the DPS charts as 'Hybrid' classes and yet i'm struggling to stay above the tank in Ulduar? Check my gear, i'm no new player. But something is really sad when other 'hybrid' classes are excelling so much more than a class that can only do 2 out of 3 possible alternatives in this game. I've been playing since a little after the AQ40 patch (gosh I miss my gnome) and I recall Pallies as well as Shamans never being able to tank and dps. Now I come back to WOTLK and pallies have been buffed even so much more... which is fine, I guess. But why is it that every shaman (including me) feels ignored? I don't think it's being done on purpose but it is very clear that it is happening. The amount of QQ encountred on these forums is way more than an average forum should see... and we're not asking you to make us retardedly as powerful as pallies, just give us a chance. A reasonable possibility that I will come out victorious out from this rogue that had snuck up on me and plans to make my daily quests even longer.

Do you guys at Blizzard have anyone on your testing team that masters a specfic class (ie: shaman) and has them fight another tester of the team on another class? To see what the players at home are dealing with in terms of their options of survial and combat?

Because if not, how does one apply? :D

Also, I recall reading a post by a player, not a blue, reading that Blizzard doesn't care about 1v1... because if that is true, could you confirm this? Because if that is the case, then I will delete this level 80 Shaman in full 7.5 Valor on video and post on a forum with some sad piano song in the background. Don't let me down.

This is the first post in a while that shamans have gotten some what of an open ended question and answer so we do thank you for that Nethaera. We just want to continue playing the class we made to have fun with to start. Its why we would like some of the survivability issues looked at so we can continue to play the game and have fun its why we are here in the first place.

Shaman base HP being low is not directly related to Shamans having lower health in PVP than many other classes. It's actually more relating to itemization on our gear than anything else. It saddens me that in my Enhancement gear, with 650 resil to boot, I only have 19k hit points. Not that I like PVP as Enhancement because it's really painful. But the point stands.

I would love it if Astral Recall could be picked up by Resto Shamans. I live on this talent, even in PVE. There are so many more stuns, silences, and fears in Ulduar than Naxx (for example, Auriaya, Thorim, and Hodir) that I see it up frequenly. In PVP it is beyond quintessential to the class, as we spend a majority of fights under the effects of Stuns.

But increasing HP will not directly increase survivability. We need mitigation. I'm not necessarily saying gimme a bubble, but we need something to help mitigate some measure of the massive burst damage coming our way in PVP, and incidental AE in PVE. "Don't stand in the fire" doesn't work when you get feared into Auriaya's Void Zones, or blasted away from Hodir's snow mounds to be Deep Freeze(d).

---

Q u o t e:

Come on now. It's easy to try to say we're hiding things since we (despite our best efforts) are indeed human and can miss things, however, we don't purposefully do so. It's also important for everyone that comes across a possible discrepancy in how something works to let us know about it in case there was an unintentional change or a bug involved.

---

Neth the thing is... That someone actually posted that should be telling... Shaman ALWAYS view any sort of buff information as something we are going to have to pay for in some other way. Shaman simply dont get buffed.

Simple as that.

If you can name me ONE buff we recieved recently that hasnt, at the same time, also had a cost associated with it Ill eat my hat.

Heck we even have a rule for it.... The 50% Rule. Any buff that shaman recieve there is a cost associated that may not be readily apparent but which will effectively negate the intended result of the buff. So while LO might be buffed... You can be sure that we're going to be looking for where the cost is... And the cost right now for that one looks to be a return to LB spam (or at least getting very very close to it).

---

Q u o t e:


alright bro tell us your secrets for hitting the rogue/feral/dk DPS of 6-8k on fights with

- no adds/multiple targets
- no damage gimmick buff
- no haste gimmick buff

i'll wait here for your response

---

Wanna know the secret?

DONT BE A COMPLETE RETARD AND PLAY YOUR CLASS RIGHT.

I dont believe for 1 second that you have people pulling 8k dps on single targets, and if you do, like I said, join another guild because they are way more geared than you are.

Elemental
1. Remove magma totem
2. Make Chain Lighting an AoE (just like bosses have)
3. Make ToW an aura

---

Q u o t e:


Wanna know the secret?

DONT BE A COMPLETE RETARD AND PLAY YOUR CLASS RIGHT.

I dont believe for 1 second that you have people pulling 8k dps on single targets, and if you do, like I said, join another guild because they are way more geared than you are.

---

cool bro i guess i must be blind and my recount addon is lying to me

perhaps you can also enlighten me how to increase my DPS by 3k (to meet the rogue/feral/dk numbers)

FS, LvB, LBx5, LvB, LBx5, 1.6 second LB with boomkin/ret pally

and some of these guild members are not insanely geared, some of them are still stuck in naxx 25 epics

Chain heal could use a huge buff in the raid environment. It is really disheartening when you cast a chain heal and it only hits one person and it would have chained had they been 1 yard closer to another player. All that i ask is that Chain Heal gets a a slightly longer chain, give it it like 3-5 more yards for the chain. I dont want it to heal for more or the bounces to not reduce healing.

I just want it to bounce.

---

Q u o t e:


Neth the thing is... That someone actually posted that should be telling... Shaman ALWAYS view any sort of buff information as something we are going to have to pay for in some other way. Shaman simply dont get buffed.

Simple as that.

If you can name me ONE buff we recieved recently that hasnt, at the same time, also had a cost associated with it Ill eat my hat.

Heck we even have a rule for it.... The 50% Rule. Any buff that shaman recieve there is a cost associated that may not be readily apparent but which will effectively negate the intended result of the buff. So while LO might be buffed... You can be sure that we're going to be looking for where the cost is... And the cost right now for that one looks to be a return to LB spam (or at least getting very very close to it).

---

The Lightning overload proc Chance Increase. No consequences attached.

(can't seem to log in for the Shaman Questions page so I'll post here)

Elem Shaman checklist:

Playstyle changes? Totem functionality. Once, we packed more buffs than any other class, many unique, and were loved for that reason. Now, any buff we bring is brought *better* by another class, save Heroism, thx to clunky totem mechanics. Also, I'd consider a functional aoe to be in this category, since we're the only caster class that has to run into melee range to aoe well. And don't say that CL makes up for this, bc it does less damage than a warrior doing WW or a rogue doing Fan of Knives (I'll skip complaining about paladin since they're technically casters). Melee dps can out-aoe a caster spec. Plus, raising the range of all shocks to 35 yards would be keen, it'd help a little on mobility for Ulduar fights to be in range of Frost Shock or Earth Shock.

What I would like in PvP? Survivability. Probably through mobility, since a bubbled ret pally can run me down and kill me with ease in much less than 12s even with Repentence on CD. But, idk if that changes with better pvp gear, I've only got a few pieces.

What I would like in raids? To scale with raid buffs. As it is, elem shaman brings most of the raid buffs they benefit from; spellpower, haste, and crit. And they don't scale particularly well with haste or crit thanks to the rigidity of the LvB rotation. Though, what I'd like most right now is a reason to use the LvB rotation; LB spam is certainly competitive at the current gear levels, if not already superior at BiS, to using the flame shock/LvB combo. Our dps in general, despite many complaints, is fine at my level of gear (beginning Ulduar). I've already outlined an idea for LvB to scale with crit in a previous post I'm assuming one Blue or another read (crit % becoming crit bonus damage %).

A word on Thunderstorm: The mana-regen on an aoe spell was an interesting idea, but as a class we have plenty of mana and no real way to alter our rotation to burn mana in order to burst dps. Now that I think about it, though, that could be a place to improve scaling on LvB; give it a sort of Arcane Blast side effect. Remove the cd and the autocrit (maybe make the presence of flame shock increase the damage a bit, and turn flame shock into a spell really worth casting), but have it give an 8s or so debuff that increases mana cost and raises damage. Or turn Elemental Mastery into an Arcane Power ripoff. Elem Shamans more than mages have plenty of mana to burn.

---

Q u o t e:
Shaman base HP being low is not directly related to Shamans having lower health in PVP than many other classes. It's actually more relating to itemization on our gear than anything else. It saddens me that in my Enhancement gear, with 650 resil to boot, I only have 19k hit points. Not that I like PVP as Enhancement because it's really painful. But the point stands.

I would love it if Astral Recall could be picked up by Resto Shamans. I live on this talent, even in PVE. There are so many more stuns, silences, and fears in Ulduar than Naxx (for example, Auriaya, Thorim, and Hodir) that I see it up frequenly. In PVP it is beyond quintessential to the class, as we spend a majority of fights under the effects of Stuns.

But increasing HP will not directly increase survivability. We need mitigation. I'm not necessarily saying gimme a bubble, but we need something to help mitigate some measure of the massive burst damage coming our way in PVP, and incidental AE in PVE. "Don't stand in the fire" doesn't work when you get feared into Auriaya's Void Zones, or blasted away from Hodir's snow mounds to be Deep Freeze(d).

---

Nicely said.

---

Q u o t e:


The Lightning overload proc Chance Increase. No consequences attached.

---

the compensating nerf is likely coming in the future