Is it balanced that DKs regularly do 2-3x my damage in 2v2 Even though they have a multitude of damage reduction abilities(let's not even talk about frost presence), armor ignoring stirkes that regularly crit for 7-8k on 800 resil, and a ranged spammable snare?

I think the highest I've ever MS crit a DK for was somewhere in the 1700 ballpark.
I get scourgestrike crit regularly for ~7200.


Please answer why it's fair not only for DKs to have massive utility BUT double my damage. I'd really like to know.

MS > SS

EDIT:

What about a priest wearing cloth.

What will hit more MS or SS when they have shadow resistance buff on?

Owned.

---

Q u o t e:
they have a multitude of damage reduction abilities

---

We may be on to something here.

---

Q u o t e:
MS hits for physical damage. DKs wear plate. SS hits for shadow damage. Warriors wear plate.

MS requires rage. SS requires two runes and two diseases to already be active on the target.

SS hits. MS hits and causes a healing debuff.

You can't just compare two abilities out of context like this. Shred likely does more damage than MS or SS. Many rogue attacks hit for far less. I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw from such facts.

Now, if you have evidence that over the course of a match the DK is consistently doing much more damage than you, that might be something worth digging into.

---

You mean like how DK's out DPS Warriors by a mile?

---

Q u o t e:
Now, if you have evidence that over the course of a match the DK is consistently doing much more damage than you, that might be something worth digging into.

---

And if he posted screenshots of DK's in general consistently doing more damage than warriors in general, would you dig?
How about if it was screenshots of Ret Paladins.

I know on my frost DK I can use about as many frost strikes over a similar period of time as my warrior can use MS and FS's damage is absurd in comparison.

edit: I'm fairly sure your response would be quite different if it existed at all. Of course, now that GC has put his 2c in on the initial post w/ no regards to the rest of the this is now a dead topic.

in 2v2 Dks routinely completely dominate the damage meters versus me (rogue) and my ret partner. Dks are massive damage machines.

---

Q u o t e:


You mean like how DK's out DPS Warriors by a mile?

---

^

---

Q u o t e:
MS hits for physical damage. DKs wear plate. SS hits for shadow damage. Warriors wear plate.

MS requires rage. SS requires two runes and two diseases to already be active on the target.

SS hits. MS hits and causes a healing debuff.

You can't just compare two abilities out of context like this. Shred likely does more damage than MS or SS. Many rogue attacks hit for far less. I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw from such facts.

Now, if you have evidence that over the course of a match the DK is consistently doing much more damage than you, that might be something worth digging into.

---

Oh snap it was dodged or parried. I hope their healer enjoys the free window of no MS for no apparent reason, that no rogue or hunter has to deal with as long as they continue attacking their main target.


Is this okay with you guys, GC? The way mortal strike was the original (so much so that it's called the "mortal strike debuff") and manages to be by far the worst iteration of it for consistency and ease of application?

Don't DK's have to double the DPS of a class with MS?

Then the healing would be roughly the same correct?

This does not seem complicated.

Sure, match DK's damage with warriors/rogue, but give them MS in return.

Lol explain Enhancement arena pvp and I'll never QQ again plzzzz. How is our dmg sufficient?

MS and SS aside, what about their utility? The glove bonus on their PvP set is retarded. Possible endless spam of CoI? That's what usually screws me over when trying to get the DK off my healer.

I don't understand how ARMS PVP can be thought as OP right now, compared to the other melee class. Rogues have always been on freaking steroids when it came to PVP with their pretty much endless crowd control capabilities, not to mention their crits on me being the same size as mine on them. Pally's have unmitigable,and nonRESISTABLE damage(no holy resist in game at all) as well as heals, the ranged stun, BoF, and of course 10 second immunity to everything while still being able to perform.

I can disarm, fear bomb(which gets broken by deep wounds), "retaliate", MS effect, and Unrelenting assault. Failsauce.

---

Q u o t e:


You mean like how DK's out DPS Warriors by a mile?

---

Clearly GC and the OP were talking PvE DPS.


Clearly.

---

Q u o t e:
MS hits for physical damage. DKs wear plate. SS hits for shadow damage. Warriors wear plate.

MS requires rage. SS requires two runes and two diseases to already be active on the target.

SS hits. MS hits and causes a healing debuff.

You can't just compare two abilities out of context like this. Shred likely does more damage than MS or SS. Many rogue attacks hit for far less. I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw from such facts.

Now, if you have evidence that over the course of a match the DK is consistently doing much more damage than you, that might be something worth digging into.

---

GC, its common knowledge that DK's do much more damage throughout a match than warriors do.

This is what I took from your response. Because Mortal Strike adds a debuff, DK instant strike talents are alowed to do 2-3x the damage of MS.

The problem is, DK's bring no less utility to a fight than warriors. DK's can interrupt spells, and have a ranged silence, best peel in the game, superb defensive capabilities and so on and so forth.

Shred is not coming from a someone wearing plate, and doesn't shred have to come from behind?

Perhaps MS sould ignore Armor.

---

Q u o t e:


GC, its common knowledge that DK's do much more damage throught a match than warriors do.

This is what I took from your response. Because Mortal Strike adds a debuff, DK instant strike talents are alowed to do 2-3x the damage of MS.

The problem is, DK's bring no less utility to a fight than warriors. DK's can interrupt spells, and have a ranged silence, best peel in the game, superb defensive capabilities and so on and so forth.

Shred is not coming from a someone wearing plate, and doesn't shred have to come from behind?

Perhaps MS sould ignore Armor.

---

No MS
No Disarm
No AOE fear
No AOE snare

Simply put, Rets and DK need to do double the DPS of a MS class on average to be competative. Perhaps the real solution would be to chop the DPS of those classes and give them MS?

---

Q u o t e:


Clearly GC and the OP were talking PvE DPS.


Clearly.

---

You dont think there is a correlation..?

---

Q u o t e:


No MS
No Disarm
No AOE fear
No AOE snare

Simply put, Rets and DK need to do double the DPS of a MS class on average to be competative. Perhaps the real solution would be to chop the DPS of those classes and give them MS?

---

Or something more creative than "I Hoj'd this guy, he has less than 25k HP and 600 resil so he's gonna die in one stun".

I think that'd be better.

For DK's replace "HoJ" with "strangulate"

From my experience, I think warriors do just as much damage as most DKs for the most part. The difference that I see that makes a DK stand out above the rest is that when a warrior or druid for that matter wants to mitigate incoming damage their changes cause their dps to significantly drop down where as I don't see as much of a drastic drop in dps with DKs.

Warriors macro a shield/weapon swap and druids go bear. Both cases survivability goes way up but damage goes way down. A DKs damage doesn't seem to go down as much when they are popping abilities for survivability.

I know as a paladin and I pop my bubble my dps goes down from 5K-7K big nuke hits to 1.5K per hit. But when a DK pops their damage reduction abilities and I start seeing immune messages left and right and you can not stun them I know they are still hitting me for 4K to 5K if not more in some cases and I have 680 resil right now.

So, I am not comparing ability being equal or not equal to another ability. I am just pointing out that DKs can be pretty much be prot warriors doing ret DPS at the same time if the DK knows what he/she is doing. Which pallies got nerfed for that if I remember correctly.

I will pay more attention to the exact numbers I see during game play tonight.

---

Q u o t e:


No MS
No Disarm
No AOE fear
No AOE snare

Simply put, Rets and DK need to do double the DPS of a MS class on average to be competative. Perhaps the real solution would be to chop the DPS of those classes and give them MS?

---

Unholy DK's have an AE snare in desecration.

Disarm lasts about 5 secs. Dismantle owns Warrior disarm.

AoE fear is nice, but costs alot of rage and is on a 2 min CD, so yes it rocks, but it is not without its downsides.

Hmm, gargoyle, bubble, +15% run speed, UNMITIGATED damage. DKs and Rets own warriors, except for MS.

One 31 point talent makes or breaks a whole class. Interesting when you think about it.