World of Warcraft

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  • Skywall
  • 0. Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 07:09:45 AM PDT
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Dear Blizzard Developers,

I appreciate what you guys are doing to better balance your game. I, like many others hate feeling underpowered or totally useless. I, like many players feel being overpowered is a joy and a curse all at the same time.

I appreciate the speed at which you guys are processing data, and the speed at which you interpret what direction you think the game is heading. And I don't think you guys are idiots nor do i think that you have little to no idea how this game works.

However, do you (blizzard) think that the speed at which you change the game, (nerfs and buffs) is counter productive to your game? With how fast the game has been changing since 3.0 players are barely getting time to learn and develop counters to what the community calls "OP". I feel that there are probably much more "OP" things in this game that aren't even recognized as "OP" simply because the game changes faster than the discovery happens.

I think that you (blizzard) are denying the playerbase time to adapt and overcome. You are denying anyone anytime to learn how to counter, or how changing a handful of talents and gear could dramatically change their DPS, TPS, or HPS.

Instead of learning how to play, players simply complain, and whatever is the hot topic for the week, gets changed.

I read the forums almost everyday. It is quite clear what class is going to be nerfed/buffed before any patch notes are released. I have to stop here, because this will turn into a rant.

in short blizzard, i feel like you are dumbing down the game, and humbly ask that you stop it.

sincerly,

a random faithful alt.
Blizzard Entertainment
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Ghostcrawler
Blizzard Poster
  • 1. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:36:19 AM PDT
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This is a tough issue because for every player who thinks the game is changing too fast, there are others who become really impatient if their class feels underpowered for even a couple of weeks.

Obviously, the best solution would be that we nail everything off the bat and never have to change abilities or numbers after a patch launches. Realistically in a game as large and popular as WoW (the number of players experimenting definitely plays into the game balance), that is not going to happen.

We made a lot of changes in the 3.1 patch, and I would not expect that many changes in subsequent patches of this expansion. However we will continue to make smaller patches and hotfixes for issues that we think need to be addressed.

We're also open to more feedback on this topic. How do you tell a player "Yeah, you're probably a little weak, but we don't want to keep making changes?"

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer
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  • Blackhand
  • 2. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:37:40 AM PDT
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first


why is blizzard buffing warlocks burst dmg when they are trying to tone down burst?

[ Post edited by Bann ]

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  • Shattered Hand
  • 3. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:42:15 AM PDT
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[quote]first


why is blizzard buffing warlocks burst dmg when they are trying to tone down burst?[/quote
Because warlocks die from being sneezed at and Blizzard doesn't want to buff sneeze protection.
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  • Lightbringer
  • 4. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:42:18 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
first

why is blizzard buffing warlocks burst dmg when they are trying to tone down burst?

Destruction needed a PvE buff. Everything a Destruction Warlock casts could be classified as burst damage (if you're counting Incinerate and Chaos Bolt). Any buff to the spec is a buff to burst damage.

Trapped inside this shell
Chained to do your mundane tasks
Release me, master
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  • Thorium Brotherhood
  • 5. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:42:39 AM PDT
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There is a definite sense of whiplash in many cases though. We have some classes that seem to go from OP to Worthless every single patch like the entire Hunter class. We then have specs like Affliction that have played a certain way, and barely held on but at least functioned turned nearly unusable in a single patch without a word.

I don't think it's a "learn to adapt" problem when classes don't have the tools to adapt in the first place. It's really not a good design philosophy to nerf one spec into the ground in hopes everyone jumps ship to the next acceptable spec the class has. Especially when those specs either have nothing in common, or you forgot to rebuff an alternate spec and after you've gone through all three trees you've left the class with no where to go but out, like is the case with hunters.

t('-',)
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  • 6. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:43:58 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
first


why is blizzard buffing warlocks burst dmg when they are trying to tone down burst?

To bring us up to everyone else's playing field.

But I will second the sentiment. In order to raid competitively in Naxx I had to go affliction -- no choice. Then in Ulduar I had to go FG/Es if I wanted to be competitive. Now I have to go deep destro. That's fine, I like it best probably, but I don't know that I feel like I have "settled into" anything this expansion.

And these changes weren't based on gear upgrades and itemization and changing fights (like being forced in the sacrifice spec for BT, which was due to gear changes and SB simply scaling best with gear). Nope, all of these changes in Northrend have been the direct result of a change made to the game and/or my class by a patch.

I know it's a tough line to walk, but the OP does make a very fair point.

[ Post edited by Ingafel ]


Yay Dalaran Junk Squad /dangle
Fan of the Rack Shake.
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  • 7. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:44:00 AM PDT
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I feel that in some cases we have been left to fend for ourselves well, but in others changes have come far too fast.

The whiplash being applied to warlocks needs to slow down. I feel they should leave the class for a month or so, no hotfix nerfing needed, and let people get some real play time in against it.

I think warriors will be fine with the Juggernaught change, but could use some PvE buffs "now".

I think some of the dps casters are awefully low. Moonkin, Elemental, Shadow, and could use PvE and PvP buffs.

I do think that the pvp QQ directed at Melee is excessive and unwarrented. Casters need help, melee doesnt need a nerf, otherwise healers in pvp need a MASSIVE nerf...

Really I think blizzard is doing a solid job. Slow down a bit on the percieved knee jerk nerfs to casters as they do not need them, and let us play it out a bit.
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  • Doomhammer
  • 8. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:44:21 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
first


why is blizzard buffing warlocks burst dmg when they are trying to tone down burst?


Because Destruction is a nuke/burst heavy tree and they want to buff its performance in PvE where its lackluster compared to other Warlock builds, the side effect naturally is the damage transfers over to PvP, and vice verca.

This would all be fixed if they would simply give in to making spells work one way on PvE targets and another in PvP, i know the reasoning behind why they don't as GC has stated it before many times, but new players have 80 levels to learn how their spells and abilities work on different targets, they should know the ins and outs of it by then.
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  • 10. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:44:55 AM PDT
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its frustrating, and the OP mentions this, but we can almost tell what is going to be nerfed just due to the amount of crying on a particular subject there is in the forums.

forums and communities tend to latch on to something regardless of its validity or logic.

I have always worried about these boards as a vector for that kind of influential change.

This place is a decent resource for finding out about how stuff is working out in game anecdotally, but there is WAY too much chaffe that gets paid attention to and it feels like that's what's driving a lot of these whiplash changes.

this creates a cycle of QQ because it's effective. it's akin to the child that figures out when he throws a tantrum he gets what he wants... so he throws a tantrum all the time.
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  • 11. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:45:02 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
first


why is blizzard buffing warlocks burst dmg when they are trying to tone down burst?


Because we have the weakest burst in the game along with priests.

ZZZZzzzzzz
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  • Tichondrius
  • 12. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:45:18 AM PDT
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It's a lot better for them to keep hot fixing things that are messed up than trying to get everything correct in patches that come every few months. Keep up the good work Blizzard.
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Vux
  • Dragonblight
  • 13. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:46:31 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:

We're also open to more feedback on this topic. How do you tell a player "Yeah, you're probably a little weak, but we don't want to keep making changes?"


Easy: make the changes.

You can't sacrifice balance just because a few people don't like change.

What's the priority? Having a balanced game? Easy decision.

[ Post edited by Vux ]

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  • Dethecus
  • 15. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:47:23 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:






Good warlocks are doing fine, maybe you should l2P?


OP melee or a resto druid/Dpriest hiding behind his alt
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  • Shattered Hand
  • 16. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:47:51 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
This is a tough issue because for every player who thinks the game is changing too fast, there are others who become really impatient if their class feels underpowered for even a couple of weeks.

Obviously, the best solution would be that we nail everything off the bat and never have to change abilities or numbers after a patch launches. Realistically in a game as large and popular as WoW (the number of players experimenting definitely plays into the game balance), that is not going to happen.

We made a lot of changes in the 3.1 patch, and I would not expect that many changes in subsequent patches of this expansion. However we will continue to make smaller patches and hotfixes for issues that we think need to be addressed.

We're also open to more feedback on this topic. How do you tell a player "Yeah, you're probably a little weak, but we don't want to keep making changes?"


That is a flaw in your testing methodology. WoW has a finite amount of abilities, the problem is based on those abilities not on the number of players who use those abilities. Using that line is a way to alleviate the responsibility of the current state of affairs the game is in. Popularity has nothing to do with imbalance.

"This is one case where some of the concerns about Ret were valid, and to be fair, we still ignored the QQ for a long time and tried not to make any changes to nerf Ret."-GC
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  • Thorium Brotherhood
  • 17. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:48:12 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
It's a lot better for them to keep hot fixing things that are messed up than trying to get everything correct in patches that come every few months. Keep up the good work Blizzard.


If they weren't so heavy handed with their changes you'd have a point. But since Blizzard is balancing with a sledge hammer, this is what's causing the whiplash people are complaining about.

How do you justify a class/spec being competetive, if not slightly overpowered to becoming borderline worthless with the lowest representation between 2 arena seasons not even a couple weeks apart?


t('-',)
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  • Blackhand
  • 18. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:48:24 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


Because Destruction is a nuke/burst heavy tree and they want to buff its performance in PvE where its lackluster compared to other Warlock builds, the side effect naturally is the damage transfers over to PvP, and vice verca.

This would all be fixed if they would simply give in to making spells work one way on PvE targets and another in PvP, i know the reasoning behind why they don't as GC has stated it before many times, but new players have 80 levels to learn how their spells and abilities work on different targets, they should know the ins and outs of it by then.


if they are trying to fix burst in pvp why do they keep pushing warlocks into a burst build?

I played a warlock at 2400+ ratings both s5 and s6 and can tell you from personal experience warlocks are so poorly designed atm its laughable. They stated alrdy the game is too bursty atm this is a bad change if thats the direction they are trying to avoid
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Vux
  • Dragonblight
  • 19. Re: Nerfs, and gameplay   05/20/2009 10:50:12 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:

If they weren't so heavy handed with their changes you'd have a point. But since Blizzard is balancing with a sledge hammer, this is what's causing the whiplash people are complaining about.

How do you justify a class/spec being competetive, if not slightly overpowered to becoming borderline worthless with the lowest representation between 2 arena seasons not even a couple weeks apart?



Hit the nail on the head.

It's not that you're making too many changes.

It's that the nerfs are just way too huge.

[ Post edited by Vux ]

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