World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Question to the Devs about Shamans

Charsi

< Critical Mass >

Stormrage

40. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:30:42 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
You'll just have to trust me then won't you? Just keep in mind, we're going to be answering questions, not offering solutions. We hope to give more insight into what is going on in the minds of the developers as well as let you know why they make the choices they do, what they might be flexible about or thinking of, and what could happen in the future. It's a tall order that most likely won't live up to everyone's expectations, but that's not going to stop us from giving you what we can and hopefully, some people will appreciate it for what it is.

I welcome this effort. Thank you to the CM's who doubtless realise they're walking into a fire.

Andromis

< SGD >

Thunderhorn

41. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:32:54 AM PDT

So neth, does this whole questioning the shaman population and other classes mean that the devs are actively trying to fix us or just want to hear what we think is wrong with the class. (i know they are always working for make classes as even as possible) but can we expect any results soon or is this more of a, compilation until icecrown thing?

Murderdog

< S E X Y >

Spirestone

42. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:33:27 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

You'll just have to trust me then won't you? Just keep in mind, we're going to be answering questions, not offering solutions. We hope to give more insight into what is going on in the minds of the developers as well as let you know why they make the choices they do, what they might be flexible about or thinking of, and what could happen in the future. It's a tall order that most likely won't live up to everyone's expectations, but that's not going to stop us from giving you what we can and hopefully, some people will appreciate it for what it is.

I also have learned that it doesn't matter how much we share about our own experiences, there will never be that one person that everyone agrees "fully fully fully" understands you. Everyone has different experiences and different expectations of what that means. There are millions of amazing people that play this game, and no one person can stand up to all of those expectations. But, it doesn't mean not going to continue to try.

Ya, ill put my trust in you, but to be totally honest, i would rather put my trust in someone who plays a shaman on a day to day basis and has end game experience to back up what they are saying.

Until you go in the arena and OOM when the druid or priest on the other side is at half mana, youll understand. When you purge someone 20+ times to get 5 buffs off, youll understand. When you see the endless LF druid/priest, youll understand. When you have no means of shaking a melee, youll understand. When you pop shamanistic rage and cant live through a cheap shot as enhanment, youll understand. the list goes on an on

These are experiences that all shaman experience. Sure, there will never be some end all shaman president that has done and seen it all, but at least go through the motions of what we have all experienced. I

[ Post edited by Murderdog ]

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

43. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:35:16 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
But shaman have had legitimate complaints about simple things like no Ele gear, or tedious totems for a long, long time. Like this stuff goes back to the beginning of BC. Probably further, but I didn't play a shaman before then. And nothing has been done about it.

We get asked for our opinion on totems in the Totems, Totems, Totems thread, and haven't heard ANYTHING since then, other than totem stomping macros are bad. It honestly seems like a black hole. Info and ideas go in, nothing comes out. Just look at the latest patch notes for shaman, we weren't even mentioned.

The latest patch also wasn't a major patch. It mostly contained fixes and adjustments. The Secrets of Ulduar patch had far more class changes as a result of continuing adjustments being made from the release of Wrath of the Lich King.

I'm not going to share opinions with you very often, I'm sorry if that disappoints you. Opinions aren't based on design philosophy and get misconstrued as design philosophy far too often. That said, however, the totem discussions are also on my radar.

Every class believes they have legitimate complaints. Every class is looking for that next bump up in power. We need to be vigilant about making sure the decisions we make in changing how anything in the game works, make sense and fit in for the overall health of the game. We also need to take into account what sort of technology changes we would need to work the right way and we'd need to make sure we have the time to develop that technology. We all wish we had a switch that allowed us to change things more rapidly, but we don't.

Q u o t e:
So neth, does this whole questioning the shaman population and other classes mean that the devs are actively trying to fix us or just want to hear what we think is wrong with the class. (i know they are always working for make classes as even as possible) but can we expect any results soon or is this more of a, compilation until icecrown thing?

Hrm.. Perhaps a bit of both? We want to know what your top issues are so we can answer from our viewpoint why we agree or disagree with it and why. From there, it also gives us great insight into what things we might be able to change along the way to make your gaming experience better in a way that is beneficial to the game as a whole.

The whole point of doing what we do, is to entertain, and make things fun for everyone. It's easy for people to lose sight of that or believe we've lost that passion, but for us, making you happy in a way that works well for everyone makes us happy. That may seem simplistic in nature, but it's the root of all things. We also want to have fun too. You can believe that if we're not having fun, we're telling those with the ability to make change all about it.

[ Post edited by Nethaera ]

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.
-Carl Sagan

Basis

< Questionable Talent >

Stormreaver

47. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:46:39 AM PDT

We'd all have fun if you sent each of us a ticket to Blizzcon :D. (That convention center can hold several million people, right?)

[SARGERAS]: NOTHING CAN DEFET ME BECUASE I AM DEFEAT EVERONE!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.cwsargeras.com/2009/03/scourge-chat-log-1.html

Immunetofear

Arena Tournament 1

48. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:47:19 AM PDT

Neth is awsome, i'm glad you are posting here.

Rouncer

< Serious Casual >

Mal'Ganis

49. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:55:08 AM PDT

How about taking a stab at these questions?

Shaman start with 500 less health then every other class. Why? I can understand how the itemization differences (even if I don't agree with how they ended up) led to where enhancement shaman are 6000 health below most other melee dps classes but why did we start so low to begin with?

Why are our Totem buffs so inferior to all the analogous buffs? It was understandable back in TBC when they were very strong so their inconveniences offset their strength but now that they can all be brought by other classes why are they still so inconvenient to use? DKs get to use all their defensive abilities while being buffed with Horn of Winter, why can't we do the same?

Elemental Shaman. They are nicely balanced with all the other dps if allowed to use Searing/Magma Totem and still receive the ToW buffs from another shaman or from a combination of a warlock + moonkin. Why not just let them have the ToW buffs whenever they have Searing/Magma totem active? Wouldn't it be more fitting to have their dps more reliant on the iconic ability of the class, totems?

Wind Shock, why does it need to share a cooldown with Earth Shock? Why does Earth Shock still need to interrupt now that we have Wind Shock? On any fight with an interrupt I either need to sacrifice a lot of dps to keep my shock cooldown free for interruption or even worse have to use another shock to avoid using Earth Shock because I could accidentally interrupt and my lockout is so short it hurts the raid rather then helping it.

[ Post edited by Rouncer ]

Talent Tree Concept
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16137074090&sid=1
Normalize Lava Lash
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15973677430&sid=1&pageNo=1

Fumbles

< The Bringers of Deat… >

Akama

50. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:55:38 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

The latest patch also wasn't a major patch. It mostly contained fixes and adjustments. The Secrets of Ulduar patch had far more class changes as a result of continuing adjustments being made from the release of Wrath of the Lich King.

I'm not going to share opinions with you very often, I'm sorry if that disappoints you. Opinions aren't based on design philosophy and get misconstrued as design philosophy far too often. That said, however, the totem discussions are also on my radar.

Every class believes they have legitimate complaints. Every class is looking for that next bump up in power. We need to be vigilant about making sure the decisions we make in changing how anything in the game works, make sense and fit in for the overall health of the game. We also need to take into account what sort of technology changes we would need to work the right way and we'd need to make sure we have the time to develop that technology. We all wish we had a switch that allowed us to change things more rapidly, but we don't.

I understand that every class wants a bump in power, and the latest patch wasn't big. But even in the Ulduar patch, shaman didn't get very many changes (new icons for resto woot). I know I sound like I am whining, but since BC was released I have put a lot of work in my shaman. I am just going to leave it at that, I know there are more examples of things that have been that way since BC but there is no point in asking them here.

I do appreciate what you are doing here, but you should remember the Tseric Bus Shock event that happened. It happened because shaman received little in the way of love for years before that, and haven't received much since.

Andromis

< SGD >

Thunderhorn

51. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:58:15 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Hrm.. Perhaps a bit of both? We want to know what your top issues are so we can answer from our viewpoint why we agree or disagree with it and why. From there, it also gives us great insight into what things we might be able to change along the way to make your gaming experience better in a way that is beneficial to the game as a whole.

The whole point of doing what we do, is to entertain, and make things fun for everyone. It's easy for people to lose sight of that or believe we've lost that passion, but for us, making you happy in a way that works well for everyone makes us happy. That may seem simplistic in nature, but it's the root of all things. We also want to have fun too. You can believe that if we're not having fun, we're telling those with the ability to make change all about it.

Well its good that there is at least an interest considering a large chunk of the shaman community has issues at the moment (most , not all, that seem legitimate) and i agree WoW is a game, its made to entertain.
One of the entertainments in an mmo though is the competition. with all the current problems we are facing right now alot of people just feel that even trying our best we aren't showing the results that classes that have to do less are. We also seems to get a low end on rewards. (gear itemization type thing) it seems that compared to any other class we get a low end for what is available to us. Either way keep up the good work. Keep picking our brains and hopefully we can solve things in a timely manner.

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

52. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:59:22 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
How about taking a stab at these questions?

Shaman start with 500 less health then every other class. Why? I can understand how the itemization differences (even if I don't agree with how they ended up) led to where enhancement shaman are 6000 health below most other melee dps classes but why did we start so low to begin with?

Why are our Totem buffs so inferior to all the analogous buffs? It was understandable back in TBC when they were very strong so their inconveniences offset their strength but now that they can all be brought by other classes why are they still so inconvenient to use? DKs get to use all their defensive abilities while being buffed with Horn of Winter, why can't we do the same?

Elemental Shaman. They are nicely balanced with all the other dps if allowed to use Searing/Magma Totem and still receive the ToW buffs from another shaman or from a combination of a warlock + moonkin. Why not just let them have the ToW buffs whenever they have Searing/Magma totem active? Wouldn't it be more fitting to have their dps more reliant on the iconic ability of the class, totems?

Wind Shock, why does it need to share a cooldown with Earth Shock? Why does Earth Shock still need to interrupt now that we have Wind Shock? On any fight with an interrupt I either need to sacrifice a lot of dps to keep my shock cooldown free for interruption or even worse have to use another shock to avoid using Earth Shock because I could accidentally interrupt and my lockout is so short it hurts the raid rather then helping it.

Do you mind adding these to the Q&A thread so they don't get lost?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.
-Carl Sagan

Tribalrage

Spinebreaker

53. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 10:59:25 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

I replaced one of your totems with a homing beacon. 0.0.

So that's what your doing with sentry totem! Isn't it! ;P

"I'm feeling a bit cerulean today" that made me laugh

Therapy $75-200 per hour, mental institution $2000-5000 per month, visiting the shaman forums and realizing my problems aren't that bad, priceless

Baloro

< Void >

Laughing Skull

54. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 11:01:54 AM PDT

The resto shaman issue is easy:

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/ehps/all/7/0/3/310

Fourteen bosses. 20 ranks per boss. 280 characters.

Seven of them are shaman. Four of those seven are on General.

Even paladins, a single target healer, have a far superior showing.

Andromis

< SGD >

Thunderhorn

55. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 11:02:14 AM PDT

pfft wasnt sentry! They managed to totally stealth add windwall totem back in and put it in there!

Fumbles

< The Bringers of Deat… >

Akama

56. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 11:03:27 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
pfft wasnt sentry! They managed to totally stealth add windwall totem back in and put it in there!

I used Windwall more than sentry. It had a use when fighting hunters.

Iphone

< An Nox >

Garithos

57. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 11:03:57 AM PDT

I'm posting from my iPhone so I don't know if it quoted properly or not bit this is to the guy who told neth that he would feel better if someone that played a shaman were to review/comment on the forums. Listen, let me say what she probably isn't allowed to.... She 1.) probably knows more about the class mechanics than alot of people, I mean it IS her job after all. And even if she doesn't I'm sure she has every top shaman pvp or pve at her fingertips along with any other wealth of info she needs. 2.) as long as they have their ear to the door that's all that we can ask for. I played a paladin for 3 years and they were terrible compared to what they are now, and although I vowed never to touch another one they DID get to them.

If they are going to overhaul our class like palys that's going to time. Keep in mind every action has a reaction ie everything they change about us has an impact on other classes. I for one am just happy they are willing to listen. Who knows maybe they have alot of ideas on the table already..

Murderdog

< S E X Y >

Spirestone

58. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 11:06:39 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
I understand that every class wants a bump in power, and the latest patch wasn't big. But even in the Ulduar patch, shaman didn't get very many changes (new icons for resto woot). I know I sound like I am whining, but since BC was released I have put a lot of work in my shaman. I am just going to leave it at that, I know there are more examples of things that have been that way since BC but there is no point in asking them here.

I do appreciate what you are doing here, but you should remember the Tseric Bus Shock event that happened. It happened because shaman received little in the way of love for years before that, and haven't received much since.

every class wants a bump in power.

When you do the Paladin questions, i guarantee all the ret pallies are going to ask for a slow or MS. Every class is going to qq their hearts out to try and get a buff. When in reality paladins are perhaps the strongest overall class in the game.

the reality is that Shamans are the worst healer and and one of the worst dps in almost every situation PvP and PvE. The shamans know it, most of the community knows it, other classes have started asking for shaman buffs.

I just want the downward skid of the shaman class to stop and for our problems to be addressed by people who understand, so this all doesnt sound like endless qq and buff asking.

Nethaera

Blizzard Poster

59. Re: Question to the Devs about Shamans 05/21/2009 11:14:02 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

every class wants a bump in power.

When you do the Paladin questions, i guarantee all the ret pallies are going to ask for a slow or MS. Every class is going to qq their hearts out to try and get a buff. When in reality paladins are perhaps the strongest overall class in the game.

the reality is that Shamans are the worst healer and and one of the worst dps in almost every situation PvP and PvE. The shamans know it, most of the community knows it, other classes have started asking for shaman buffs.

I just want the downward skid of the shaman class to stop and for our problems to be addressed by people who understand, so this all doesnt sound like endless qq and buff asking.

Just out of curiosity, for the sake of discussion, where is it you think you should be?

We'll take it further and break it down more.

PvE

Solo
- Elemental
- Enhancement
- Resto
Raid
- Elemental
- Enhancement
- Resto

PVP

Battlegrounds
- Elemental
- Enhancement
- Resto
Arena
- Elemental
- Enhancement
- Resto

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.
-Carl Sagan

Forum > Classes > SHAMAN