Warriors have last stand....
Death Knights have Vampiric Blood ....
Druids have Survival Instincts....


All of which are the same panic buttons on short cooldowns, and Paladins still don't have access to a similar ability. You cannot say Lay on Hands matches them because it's cooldown is 5x longer, and even if it was the same amount, Last Stand still outperforms Lay on Hands.

So i'm asking, can Paladins expect a panic button like Last stand, Vampirir Blood, and Survival Instincts in the future? How can you justify all tanks being equal when such a gap is stll present?

Thankyou...

Any official comment, whether positive or negative would be very satisfying. But I suppose that is true of every topic.

Did all DK tanks respec blood while I wasn't looking?

The Glyph of Salvation should just remove the threat reduction part of the ability as the easiest possible fix.

1. If a tank is using it, that means he doesn't want the threat reduction.
2. If any spec is using it in PvP, he doesn't need the threat reduction.
3. It's still available to use in PvE to reduce the threat on other players.

The only spec to be hurt by a change like this is a Ret Paladin that likes using HoSalv on themselves to reduce incoming raid damage, but even that can be covered by the other tools available to them such as AOW procs or self-Sacred Shield.

A Holy Paladin using HoSalv on themselves shouldn't see a difference at all, since the less of the threat reduction doesn't matter to them anyway.

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Q u o t e:
The Glyph of Salvation should just remove the threat reduction part of the ability as the easiest possible fix.

1. If a tank is using it, that means he doesn't want the threat reduction.
2. If any spec is using it in PvP, he doesn't need the threat reduction.
3. It's still available to use in PvE to reduce the threat on other players.

The only spec to be hurt by a change like this is a Ret Paladin that likes using HoSalv on themselves to reduce incoming raid damage, but even that can be covered by the other tools available to them such as AOW procs or self-Sacred Shield.

A Holy Paladin using HoSalv on themselves shouldn't see a difference at all, since the less of the threat reduction doesn't matter to them anyway.

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Fanaticism doesn't reduce threat generated if Righteous Fury is active, so I'm sure Hand of Salvation could be made to function without the threat reduction if Righteous Fury is active. That's my thought.

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Q u o t e:
For some reason I cannot just let this go, I feel I must agree with the OP that Pallies should get another "Oh Snap" CD (Perhaps not HP Increase as to make them all genericly the same). However, I belive Blizzards reasoning behind you guys "not" having an HP increase CD such as LS/SI is "Ardent Defender". I realize its somewhat useless atm but I have a weird feeling thats Blizzards reasoning.

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Blood tanks don't get VB because they have WotN.

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Q u o t e:


And wtf does that have to do with my quote in your post? :|

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Well you see, WotN is a better version of AD and VB is a better version of nothing.

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Q u o t e:
The Glyph of Salvation should just remove the threat reduction part of the ability as the easiest possible fix.

1. If a tank is using it, that means he doesn't want the threat reduction.
2. If any spec is using it in PvP, he doesn't need the threat reduction.
3. It's still available to use in PvE to reduce the threat on other players.

The only spec to be hurt by a change like this is a Ret Paladin that likes using HoSalv on themselves to reduce incoming raid damage, but even that can be covered by the other tools available to them such as AOW procs or self-Sacred Shield.

A Holy Paladin using HoSalv on themselves shouldn't see a difference at all, since the less of the threat reduction doesn't matter to them anyway.

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The problem here is that, it's using a glyph to bring the class up in base inline function with other tanks, pretty much reducing the number of choices you have for your glyphs by one.

It's the same thing for the warrior shield wall glyph, if the problem is that warriors need a 2 minute damage reduction just like DK's have, then have it build into the talents just like paladins do. Same with the warrior T8 4 set bonus, that should be built into the talents or base line tanking skills for prot when in defensive stance.

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Q u o t e:


The problem here is that, it's using a glyph to bring the class up in base inline function with other tanks, pretty much reducing the number of choices you have for your glyphs by one.

It's the same thing for the warrior shield wall glyph, if the problem is that warriors need a 2 minute damage reduction just like DK's have, then have it build into the talents just like paladins do. Same with the warrior T8 4 set bonus, that should be built into the talents or base line tanking skills for prot when in defensive stance.

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2 min SW = 2 talent pts and a glyph
I also hate my threat being ok by having to rely on the guy with vigilance not standing in the fire :P

I'd be ok with pallys seeing another medium strength CD

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Q u o t e:
And wtf does that have to do with my quote in your post? :|

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Ardent Defender *cannot* be the reason why they're denying us another cooldown because they didn't deny another cooldown to Blood even if they already also had Will of the Necropolis, an arguably better version of Ardent Defender.

That being said, if Paladins have a worse version of WOTN, I would gladly take a worse version of Vampiric Blood.

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Q u o t e:
The problem here is that, it's using a glyph to bring the class up in base inline function with other tanks, pretty much reducing the number of choices you have for your glyphs by one.

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I said it was the easiest fix, not the most elegant.

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Q u o t e:
don't fish for blues, bro.

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He is using the wrong lure anyway.

I think the Glyph of Salvation is actually a step in the right direction.

PLEASE though, can we get the 20% threat reduction removed?

Maybe a 5% threat reduction to match Pain Suppression, which I think is fair and makes it so you can't use it without thought, but 20% sucks big time.

And can we get an explanation on the purpose of this glyph? It's useless in PVP if that was the intention, unless you like being kited constantly.

While I'll agree that paladins do need some more CD love, comparing last stand to LoH is a little rough and would depend on the encounter.
Increases to HP are independant from heal reduction debuffs so are quite useful on fights like loatheb (for instance) as well as potentially proactive for long cast or predictable high damage bursts. LoH however just flat amounts to more HP gained and does not expire so that if you can survive that burst you're back in business as usual right away vs still needing heals and going to lose some HP in a short while.

That said comparing the two is valid and the CD for tanks anyway probably needs to be lowered.

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Q u o t e:
they do have that damage reduction thing when they drop below 35% help, not sayiing it's the same but dont conviniently leave it out.

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L2read.

that "damage reduction thing" is called ardent defender, and has been the subject for most of this thread.

Personally, I don't find myself having major issues with the few cooldowns we have, but... my job would be a lot easier with an extra CD. Not to mention it would make my healers lives easier if I had some sort of extra cooldown.

What about Divine Protection? Half the damage for 12 seconds can save the tank/raid if used correctly.