World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> A Moonkin's Plea

Sturmvogel

< Slap in the Face >

Doomhammer

40. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:18:11 AM PDT

So what's the base suspicion for lower Balance DPS?

Just Eclipse RNG + High Movement Fights + Overall lower raid spell crit?

- Bird of the Storm

Matteo

< Heroes of Hate >

Area 52

41. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:19:48 AM PDT

the only thing i see as a problem is the sheer diffrence in dps in the same fight depending on RNG.

even my shadow priest asked "what are you doing different the last two fights, you did not even break 4k" and a warrior say "WTH 79% crit rate, a boomkin doing 5.9k..lawls"

i think our damage is almost competitive if it just could be a little more consistant

also what is very disapointing is that we dont have a 35 / 20% talent that does more damage at the end of the fight. i've seen more times where i go from 1-2 and at 35% bloodlust is dropped and i drop down to 6-8 fast.

http://wowwebstats.com/ohr2fmwxi166e?s=272314-322105

http://wowwebstats.com/ohr2fmwxi166e?s=425697-448392

i always seem to do quite well when wrath hits 40-45% when ever a parce is in the 30% i suffer.

http://wowwebstats.com/ohr2fmwxi166e?s=658441-724963&a=x7000000006bd1db

so much dependence and dps focused on RNG and Crit seem to hurt us more then say mages...

also wish innervate and BR had more range so my dps uptime can be a tad better when i have to rez the stupid and innervate the inneficient

[ Post edited by Matteo ]

Lherin

< Midwinter >

Ysera

42. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:22:59 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Just from personal experience, I've never found myself not in the top 5 on DPS. Generally, the Mages and I are the ones fighting for the top spot and I can beat them out depending on their RNG and mine.

Really? In ulduar I'm almost never in the top 5. The only friendly fights where I have a chance of making it to the top 5 are yogg, vezax, and hodir.

On the rest of the fights I tend to be fighting it out for 8th-13th place, unless I get lucky.

Matteo

< Heroes of Hate >

Area 52

43. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:28:20 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

I thank you for your reply GC, but I am curious about this response - if you still have time to answer me.

If, after the Spirit change, you still feel that Balance Druid DPS is a little low, could you perhaps throw some ideals out as to where you think about fixing it? I only ask because there are quite a few cases with some Druids where our DPS isn't too low. I know this is true for several of the Druids that posted here and myself. Just from personal experience, I've never found myself not in the top 5 on DPS. Generally, the Mages and I are the ones fighting for the top spot and I can beat them out depending on their RNG and mine.

The reason I ask this is because any real changes to Balance DPS would have to be done is such a way that our high extremes do not become too high and unbalance our DPS.

The only way I can think of doing this outside of changing Eclipse completely would be to alter Insect Swarm (again) and/or Moonfire to account for more of our DPS. Since these two spells don't effect Eclipse and their damage is currently very static, I suspect it's the easiest means of adjusting Balance DPS.

Anyway, back to reading through massive amounts of logs. Thanks to everyone that's posted thus far!

crits on dots?

Fatima

< Wizards IRL >

Doomhammer

44. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:28:37 AM PDT

I can only speak from my own experience, but Moonkin in our guild do fine. They don't top the DPS meter and they shouldn't. If a hybrid class can pump out more damage than a pure class then the game is broken imho. Where we sit now is Rogues/Mages fighting for the top spots and the hybrids popping up in the 5-10 slots. With the buffs you bring your class is fine.

Murmurs

< Intrigue >

Garona

45. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:29:09 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
So what's the base suspicion for lower Balance DPS?

Just Eclipse RNG + High Movement Fights + Overall lower raid spell crit?

I am, perhaps, starting to agree with the sentiment that our DPS is a bit low, but I can not account for the cause directly.

It seems more than as Pures get better, we really just don't and I know a lot of people are quick to point out gearing as the problem, but I am not so sure this is the problem.

There are a few posts here by some of the top DPSing Balance Druids around - Broes and Yogi both have several of the top parses. Yet, overall in their raids they usually aren't performing all that great. The comparisons between Foofy and Yogi were also extremely useful, as I already pointed out.

I mean, there are some encounters where you can't really get an accurate reading - Kologarn, XT, and Ignis are good examples. If you get lots of Eye Beams or get Gripped several times, then your DPS is going to suffer and this is simply true for all classes. XT has a similar concept with adds and bombs, and Ignis has a similar issue with shattering or the pot. While it could be said that, in theory, everyone should suffer from these the same, that doesn't always happen. I've seen the same person get thrown into the pot 3 to 4 times during an encounter, or get loads of eye beams and gripped multiple times in a row, while some people never get any of this.

I think Ignis' pot is a really good example of a flaw within the Balance mechanics though. It's a massive Haste buff, but for a very limited amount of time. For most Druids using a Lunar Rotation, they simply won't be able to make use of this because they'll probably have to be casting Wrath at this point.

Perhaps it is time once again to re-visit the issue of Wrath and Haste.

Offical bad guy for <Intrigue>

Rustling - 80 Paladin
Murmurs - 80 Druid
Sussurration - 72 Priest

Lherin

< Midwinter >

Ysera

46. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:29:11 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
So what's the base suspicion for lower Balance DPS?

Just Eclipse RNG + High Movement Fights + Overall lower raid spell crit?

That pretty much sums it up yes.

I know we like to fight it out over those last few talent points. And how this one talent point is worth less than this other talent point. But really, the largest factor in DPS is going to be how long did you manage to stand in one place, how active where you, and how much were you able to take advantage of your procs?

Those things alone will make more difference in your dps than anything else.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

47. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:30:42 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
I know this is true for several of the Druids that posted here and myself. Just from personal experience, I've never found myself not in the top 5 on DPS. Generally, the Mages and I are the ones fighting for the top spot and I can beat them out depending on their RNG and mine.

The reason I ask this is because any real changes to Balance DPS would have to be done is such a way that our high extremes do not become too high and unbalance our DPS.

The only way I can think of doing this outside of changing Eclipse completely would be to alter Insect Swarm (again) and/or Moonfire to account for more of our DPS. Since these two spells don't effect Eclipse and their damage is currently very static, I suspect it's the easiest means of adjusting Balance DPS.

As I've said a few times, it's pretty tricky to calculate "real" dps in Ulduar because there are so few Patchwerk-like fights. That is actually to some extent by design because it gets players to focus more on "How do I maximize my dps on this fight?" rather than "What's my dps?" But it does make estimating who is high or low tricky for both you and us. It's awesome you are taking names, and I'll attribute that to knowing how to gear and play your class. We do worry that the Scorch change hurt Balance and Elemental since we ended up partially compensating the mages.

The basic design problem for Balance, as I know you know, comes down to Wrath and Stafire just being very similar spells. One is always going to win out by virtue of damage or cast time. Eclipse was our attempt to make which one wins more dynamic. I think it accomplishes that, but I think it's also fair to say that there aren't a ton of druids who are in love with the talent. Or maybe it's more fair to say that there are druids who just can't stand it. It's also not swell that the talent has driven many druids to mods to help manage it.

We're not going to give you a rotation that ends up being something like SF, Wrath, SF, Wrath or even SF x4, Wrath x4. We just think that's too boring and ultimately bad for the game. You can argue that you like Balance because it's very predictable and macro-able, but it should be clear that we view that as a problem.

I'm in total hand-waving, brainstorm mode here. This is not a design we have cooking that we're all ready to implement, but imagine Eclipse worked something like this: Every Starfire you cast has a 20% cumulative chance of making your next Wrath do 30% more damage. So after SF1, the chance is 20%, but after SF5 the chance is 100%. That encourages you to swap spells somewhat randomly, but less random than the system we have now. The goal is to have something where you sometimes switch after SF 3 and sometimes after SF 5. Good druids would always switch at the right time and those who are still trying to maximize their potential could get better about switching at the right time. You could also have a system where every SF has a chance of making Wrath slightly better, with a stack on that effect, so that at some point it's the right time to switch. Don't feel the need to point out how you could game this system -- I spent all of 2 minutes coming up with it. If and when we decide to change it, we'd put far more work into the design.

[ Post edited by Ghostcrawler ]

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Tigorasou

< Solvo Prenda >

Cenarius

48. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:31:14 AM PDT

I really am happy GC decided to look at our thread. All we are missing is Graylo for a complete full house of boomkins :D

There is alot of really good info in this thread, the WWS are nice and everyone (that is on topic) has made some really good points. I think that the randomness and variability to non-druids really hurts us when our guild leaders look at the meters. Doing 3.2k one fight and 2.7 the next makes us look lazy to the uninformed.

I think moonkin have some issues that need to be addressed. Spirit on gear in Ulduar is one thing but I'm thinking there is more to the spec its self that is required beyond IMF.

I trust that GC will take care of us! (hopes that he is right) :D

::EDIT::

I like that ideas are flowing! I have been thinking that maybe our spell choices could be expanded. I.E. A new spell. Graylo suggested as much on his recent Twisted Nether blogcast interview.

The balance tree lacks a Direct Damage spell that is different from what every other druid has, I have been thinking maybe an additional Instant Cast spell with a debuff added would be an awesome addition.

Just food for thought

[ Post edited by Tigorasou ]

Velcrom

< Korrupt Heroes >

Onyxia

49. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:34:00 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you worried about the damage done by Moonkin wearing no gear and no buffs? Usually when players are concerned about low PvE dps, it's an end-game raiding concern. Hardly anything affects the base damage of spells except the spell rank.

So the Devs feel Balance dps is low in PVE? And the basis for that (given that you buffed the spirit to spell damage conversion from 15 to 30%) is the abundance of spirit on our gear?

Have other factors been considered? ie. Eclipse or Mobility?

I've noticed that you guys are in love with haste buffs. Slag pot survivor? Haste buff. Stand in the starlight? Haste buff. Leather: spirit and haste. Haste. Haste and more haste. I haven't raided as Moonkin in a very long time now, but I can imagine that being somewhat of a headache to deal with. Haste makes you want to use Starfire, but Eclipse requires Wrath casts to fish for a buff to Starfire. Managing Eclipse around bloodlust is painful for this reason also.

On mobility, I am curious as to why a majority of classes have a critting DoT now. Ferals- rip crits, rake crits; Locks corruption crits; S priest dots crit; Mages living bomb crits; who did I miss? Maybe allow Moonkin dots to crit too? That would boost dps in high mobility fights.

Murmurs

< Intrigue >

Garona

50. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:43:56 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Really? In ulduar I'm almost never in the top 5. The only friendly fights where I have a chance of making it to the top 5 are yogg, vezax, and hodir.

On the rest of the fights I tend to be fighting it out for 8th-13th place, unless I get lucky.

I've had a few low parses on Ignis - but most of that was my fault for not dealing with Flame Jets properly. I was mostly trained on the fight as a healer (which I usually do in 10 mans) so I made a few stupid mistakes, but I was only dropped to around 9th I think. I might end up being lower on Kologarn, but I've only DPSed on a few attempts (and on those I was generally in the top 5) and had to heal since we generally run really healer light. On our Assembly parses, I've never fallen low.

We don't have many WWS logs up due to bugs with it. I've got our latest one http://wowwebstats.com/k3yyzha1krmke It's all Kologarn and Assembly of Iron logs though. I only DPSed for two Kologarn attempts (1st on one, 7th on other where I was gripped and had a few beams) and Assembly only parses Steelbreaker but I was 1st on all of those save 2 where I died early and our Steelbreaker tank went down anyway. I run both Recount and Skada in game though, and I didn't fall much on downing the others. On try 6, Chris ended up beating me and I fell to second, on try 7 Lorzak, Feo, and Chris both passed me.

Q u o t e:
I can only speak from my own experience, but Moonkin in our guild do fine. They don't top the DPS meter and they shouldn't. If a hybrid class can pump out more damage than a pure class then the game is broken imho. Where we sit now is Rogues/Mages fighting for the top spots and the hybrids popping up in the 5-10 slots. With the buffs you bring your class is fine.

If the Mages, Rogues, Warlocks, and Hunters are skilled, then I have no problems being below all of them. However if I out-play them, then I should be able to roflstomp their DPS.

I don't have a problem with my DPS, and I like where I am right now. In the limited view of my guild, it feels like every thing is balanced perfectly. Most of the time, the Mages, Rogues, Warlocks, and Hunters beat me, but I like the thrill of the game that I can beat them if I try hard enough. If I get my rotation perfect and have a bit of good RNG, I can just eek by them for the top spot. If I didn't have a chance to ever beat a Mage again, I doubt I would try half as hard.

Offical bad guy for <Intrigue>

Rustling - 80 Paladin
Murmurs - 80 Druid
Sussurration - 72 Priest

Hrothgarath

< Dread >

Cho'gall

51. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:46:05 AM PDT

Haha, GC, I like that you shared some brainstorming with us. Is this a world 1st? XD

Lissanna

< Conspiracy >

Elune

52. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:48:22 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

I'm in total hand-waving, brainstorm mode here. This is not a design we have cooking that we're all ready to implement, but imagine Eclipse worked something like this: Every Starfire you cast has a 20% cumulative chance of making your next Wrath do 30% more damage. So after SF1, the chance is 20%, but after SF5 the chance is 100%. That encourages you to swap spells somewhat randomly, but less random than the system we have now. The goal is to have something where you sometimes switch after SF 3 and sometimes after SF 5. Good druids would always switch at the right time and those who are still trying to maximize their potential could get better about switching at the right time. You could also have a system where every SF has a chance of making Wrath slightly better, with a stack on that effect, so that at some point it's the right time to switch. Don't feel the need to point out how you could game this system -- I spent all of 2 minutes coming up with it. If and when we decide to change it, we'd put far more work into the design.

I think druids need another spell added into their rotations before a change to Eclipse would actually keep moonkin's rotations "interesting." With that design, everyone would just do SFx5, W, SFx5, W...

We need something more like lava burst that Shaman got which makes their rotations more interesting. (consumes an insect swarm & does direct damage?).

A revamp of Eclipse is going to be necessary by the time the next expansion rolls around. Having new spells that actually does something different is going to be a heck of a lot better than being forced to rotate between two nearly identical spells that have no real secondary effect...

Lissanna's druid blog, for all things druid: http://www.restokin.com/

Murmurs

< Intrigue >

Garona

53. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:52:15 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

As I've said a few times, it's pretty tricky to calculate "real" dps in Ulduar because there are so few Patchwerk-like fights. That is actually to some extent by design because it gets players to focus more on "How do I maximize by dps on this fight?" rather than "What's my dps?" But it does make estimating who is high or low tricky for both you and us. It's awesome you are taking names, and I'll attribute that to knowing how to gear and play your class. We do worry that the Scorch change hurt Balance and Elemental since we ended up partially compensating the mages.

The basic design problem for Balance, as I know you know, comes down to Wrath and Stafire just being very similar spells. One is always going to win out by virtue of damage or cast time. Eclipse was our attempt to make which one wins more dynamic. I think it accomplishes that, but I think it's also fair to say that there aren't a ton of druids who are in love with the talent. Or maybe it's more fair to say that there are druids who just can't stand it. It's also not swell that the talent has driven many druids to mods to help manage it.

We're not going to give you a rotation that ends up being something like SF, Wrath, SF, Wrath or even SF x4, Wrath x4. We just think that's too boring and ultimately bad for the game. You can argue that you like Balance because it's very predictable and macro-able, but it should be clear that we view that as a problem.

I'm in total hand-waving, brainstorm mode here. This is not a design we have cooking that we're all ready to implement, but imagine Eclipse worked something like this: Every Starfire you cast has a 20% cumulative chance of making your next Wrath do 30% more damage. So after SF1, the chance is 20%, but after SF5 the chance is 100%. That encourages you to swap spells somewhat randomly, but less random than the system we have now. The goal is to have something where you sometimes switch after SF 3 and sometimes after SF 5. Good druids would always switch at the right time and those who are still trying to maximize their potential could get better about switching at the right time. You could also have a system where every SF has a chance of making Wrath slightly better, with a stack on that effect, so that at some point it's the right time to switch. Don't feel the need to point out how you could game this system -- I spent all of 2 minutes coming up with it. If and when we decide to change it, we'd put far more work into the design.

And thanks again! And to the community as well, great conversation so far, very on topic, and very to the point. A+ all around.

I had a thread a while back that was a random musing of mine for fun. I had changed Eclipse to be a minor stacking bonus of 1% crit per Starfire cast and 1% Haste per Wrath cast. Both of these effects stack and the buff lasts 10 or 15 seconds. So the Druid would need to stack them both up and then maintain them throughout the encounter. I'm not entirely sure this would fit into the category of being random or fluid enough though since the Druid would only cast one Starfire or Wrath every 10 or 15 seconds and then just spam one spell.

In order to make it more complex, I had to add in a Mind Blast style spell that increased DPS slightly, but the damage was dependent on having both Moonfire and Insect Swarm up. This meant Druids had to watch to make sure their DoTs didn't drop, they had to maintain both Eclipse buffs, and had to watch a moderate cooldown.

I realize that's a lot more work that simply changing Eclipse out-right to encompass everything, but that concept of Eclipse, in my opinion, is getting difficult to balance around.

I think of some more Eclipse theories to throw into this thread for you.

<3 everyone in this thread so far, really, really do.

Offical bad guy for <Intrigue>

Rustling - 80 Paladin
Murmurs - 80 Druid
Sussurration - 72 Priest

Khoal

< Ancient Prodigies >

Frostmourne

54. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:52:29 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
As I've said a few times, it's pretty tricky to calculate "real" dps in Ulduar because there are so few Patchwerk-like fights.

Personally I'm beginning to disagree with measuring by this method. If every class is going to do the same dps on patchwerk, what happens when we fight a real boss? Some specs lose a lot more dps than others by moving, and you have to question what worth some specs have in a real encounter...
Now's when the anti-homogenization crowd come in and hang me

Also i'm with everyone that thinks balance is a bit lost right now. The design of the tree is a bit screwy in terms of how they deal damage and also how they sustain the damage, and performance in both pve and pvp is a little lacking =\. But that's more opinion than fact I guess...

[ Post edited by Khoal ]

Hrothgarath

< Dread >

Cho'gall

55. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:53:07 AM PDT

A spammable ability we can use between Eclipse procs (when we dont want to proc Eclipse) would be interesting, but I think that would be a lot more work to develop than to reconfigure Eclipse.

Ziinaya

< Lanakila >

Proudmoore

56. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:54:15 AM PDT

GC. since your last post was a bith lengthy I won't bother to quote it all, but consider this a response. :)

I think I can speak for the majority of Moonkins when I say that the chief thing we don't like about Ecplise is that it's not controllable. A Mechanic that I do like is the instant Fireball proc that Frost Mages get. When that ability procs, they have something like a 10-second window in which they can cast a Fireball instantly. That means that they aren't punished if they have to move, and they have some control over when they consume the buff. (Please note that's ignoring the fact that Frost PvE DPS is terrible right now).

How about something like this:
Lunar Eclipse: Your next 5 Starfire spells cast within 30 seconds have an extra 30% chance to crit
Solar Eclipse: Your next 5 Wrath spells cast within 20 seconds do 15% more damage
Still has a 30-second internal cooldown

Same effect, but less stressful because it won't feel so much like we're racing against a clock to make use of the buff.

Tigorasou

< Solvo Prenda >

Cenarius

57. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:54:52 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

I think druids need another spell added into their rotations before a change to Eclipse would actually keep moonkin's rotations "interesting." With that design, everyone would just do SFx5, W, SFx5, W...

We need something more like lava burst that Shaman got which makes their rotations more interesting. (consumes an insect swarm & does direct damage?).

A revamp of Eclipse is going to be necessary by the time the next expansion rolls around. Having new spells that actually does something different is going to be a heck of a lot better than being forced to rotate between two nearly identical spells that have no real secondary effect...

Hey Lissanna :D /wave

This is kinda what I was thinking about, I called it a Reverse Swiftmend, alowing you to consume a DoT to deal instant damage, and Glyph it to not consume a DoT of course. Just like Swiftmend and Conflaguate(not sure if that is the right spell, but the lock one... you know <_<)

Lherin

< Midwinter >

Ysera

58. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 11:59:32 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

As I've said a few times, it's pretty tricky to calculate "real" dps in Ulduar because there are so few Patchwerk-like fights. That is actually to some extent by design because it gets players to focus more on "How do I maximize by dps on this fight?" rather than "What's my dps?" But it does make estimating who is high or low tricky for both you and us. It's awesome you are taking names, and I'll attribute that to knowing how to gear and play your class. We do worry that the Scorch change hurt Balance and Elemental since we ended up partially compensating the mages.

The basic design problem for Balance, as I know you know, comes down to Wrath and Stafire just being very similar spells. One is always going to win out by virtue of damage or cast time. Eclipse was our attempt to make which one wins more dynamic. I think it accomplishes that, but I think it's also fair to say that there aren't a ton of druids who are in love with the talent. Or maybe it's more fair to say that there are druids who just can't stand it. It's also not swell that the talent has driven many druids to mods to help manage it.

We're not going to give you a rotation that ends up being something like SF, Wrath, SF, Wrath or even SF x4, Wrath x4. We just think that's too boring and ultimately bad for the game. You can argue that you like Balance because it's very predictable and macro-able, but it should be clear that we view that as a problem.

I'm in total hand-waving, brainstorm mode here. This is not a design we have cooking that we're all ready to implement, but imagine Eclipse worked something like this: Every Starfire you cast has a 20% cumulative chance of making your next Wrath do 30% more damage. So after SF1, the chance is 20%, but after SF5 the chance is 100%. That encourages you to swap spells somewhat randomly, but less random than the system we have now. The goal is to have something where you sometimes switch after SF 3 and sometimes after SF 5. Good druids would always switch at the right time and those who are still trying to maximize their potential could get better about switching at the right time. You could also have a system where every SF has a chance of making Wrath slightly better, with a stack on that effect, so that at some point it's the right time to switch. Don't feel the need to point out how you could game this system -- I spent all of 2 minutes coming up with it. If and when we decide to change it, we'd put far more work into the design.

Something along those lines would certainly be better. Allow me to be a bit blunt here :)

Moonkins seem to be a bit like mages, but without controllable cooldowns.
Moonkins seem to be a bit like warlocks, but without awesome dots.

On heavy movement fights we lose out because there's nothing we can do to take control of the situation. The only thing I can 'pop' to try and take advantage of standing still for a bit is Starfall. Which will give me a temporary boost in haste for it's duration. That's it.

Wrath is not a fun spell, period. Anything that has you constantly hammering the GCD is not fun (IMHO). Wrath while under the effects of Heroism is like pulling teeth. Look at all the haste effects you added to ulduar. None of these make me want to cast wrath.

I know you don't want to give us a triggerable eclipse that we can pop when we want, but honestly I still see this as being the best solution. Give us control over our damage, give me options.

If I pop eclipse and then I have to move because I'm standing in a rune of death, well that sucks, but at least it's my fault.

If I try for 10 seconds to get wrath to crit to proc eclipse, and then I have to move because I'm standing in a rune of death, that just down right sucks.

I'll tell you what happened to me the other day on Thorim. We pop heroism about 15 seconds after we trigger him and sif.

I had to wrath for HALF of the duration of heroism before I was able to proc Eclipse. Yes, this was extremely unlucky, but INCREDIBLY frustrating. It's experiences like that which stick in our minds, even if they are infrequent, and taint our opinion of certain mechanics. After that attempt I vowed to stop using haste pots and use wild magic instead. Nothing is less fun than banging on the GCD for 20 strait seconds, knowing that everyone is passing you and being able to do nothing about it.

Sturmvogel

< Slap in the Face >

Doomhammer

59. Re: A Moonkin's Plea 05/09/2009 12:03:26 PM PDT

Casting Combo Points... go!

No seriously, that would be pretty neat.

- Bird of the Storm

Forum > CLASS ROLES > DAMAGE DEALING