Hello again.

I am here this time to make a plea, to beg, to grovel, and to pray for a change.

There is a significant portion of the Balance Druid community that is not happy. I cannot pretend to speak for all of them, merely those whom I know and read posts, blogs, and e-mails from, but given the small representation of our spec in all environments, I would venture to guess that I know a good enough amount.

But, I digress, I come here to beg for some communication, for some understanding, and, hopefully, for some dialogue. And I am not begging GC or any other developer, I am begging the Druid community - and the entire WoW community at that.

There are some Balance Druids that are of the mind set that Balance Druid DPS is too low, there are some that think we are just fine. It's a massive disconnect within the community where it's beginning to become difficult to discern what's real and what isn't.

So, what I want are numbers and information. I want to see reports of any kind of any variable of DPS. I want to see reports of Druids failing, or them succeeding. I want to know their rotations, their specs, their raid buffs, their gear, everything and anything.

There are an infinite number of ways to tweak or adjust Balance Druid DPS should it need to be, but without knowing if things need to change, then suggestions can't be made and the developers can't really know. Yes, Blizzard has their own tools, yes they probably, certainly know the situation better than anyone, but I want to know too.

If we can weed through all of the data, then perhaps we can come to a definite conclusion.

So, talk to me; I'm listening.

I gave this a plug on my restokin site, so hopefully we'll be able to generate some feedback soon. :)

I'm very happy overall with our PVE viability - our dps is very, very competitive. However, I really wish that eclipse would proc more than the silly '60%' it says...seems more like 30% most of the time :(

WWS from a pretty basic stand and pew fight (WWS sucks and only logs to the death of steelbreaker =/)
http://wowwebstats.com/b4iosffuojosq?s=9716-37836

Also, rest of the dps was slacking that day.

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Q u o t e:
I'm very happy overall with our PVE viability - our dps is very, very competitive. However, I really wish that eclipse would proc more than the silly '60%' it says...seems more like 30% most of the time :(

WWS from a pretty basic stand and pew fight (WWS sucks and only logs to the death of steelbreaker =/)
http://wowwebstats.com/b4iosffuojosq?s=9716-37836

Also, rest of the dps was slacking that day.

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It proc'd that often for you???? Main reason I dropped that Telent is cuz the good (30% Starfire crit) effect never happens (at least for me), and when it does I don't notice any difference in crit chance (although this might just be a result of Blizzard's BS RNG).

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Q u o t e:

It proc'd that often for you???? Main reason I dropped that Telent is cuz the good (30% Starfire crit) effect never happens (at least for me), and when it does I don't notice any difference in crit chance (although this might just be a result of Blizzard's BS RNG).

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60% chance on wrath crit*. And you should definitely pick it up - it's a raiding essential in multiple ways. Probably the reason it doesn't proc much for you is because you're kind of low on crit and don't have the t7 4pc. Fully raid buffed with a debuffed mob, I have about a 45ish% chance to crit wrath (I don't stack crit really, I only aim or about 25% self buffed while in form and am a little short of that right now).

It's very worth it and you should definitely pick it up if you plan on raiding at all.

Thanks Frame and Foofy (and Yogi in a way.) Those parses do show some great data, specifically Foofy's and Yogi's since we can compare two Balance Druids in the exact same raid at once.

There are some disparities and oddities. For example, on the second Kologarn I'm guessing Yogi died, but it shows 100% present which does make sense for the level of out-put.

I think Thorim is the most interesting you're placed 13th and Yogi is 4th, but there is only 180,000 damage between you. This does and doesn't seem like a wide margin. What's strange is how close your breakdowns are to each other. Both of you have 45 gains of Nature's Grace and both have 8 gains of Eclipse, so it's difficult to pin down how such a large gap occurred. I thinking that maybe you died? I dunno, it's a very strange parse. You cast 85 Wraths, he cast 65. You had 50 Starfires, he had 59. The strangest part is you had 30 Wrath crits, and he had 18, while he had 38 Starfire crits and you had 31.

Assuming you didn't die, then I think this would be a good example of how the 60% chance on Wrath crit portion of Eclipse really does play a factor in our ability to deal damage. Even though so many of your stats are similar (same overall number of crits and same number of Eclipse) he did slightly better.

Although slightly irrelevant, your DPS was roughly 400 lower than his, but there are plenty of parses having the two of you equal or you better. So perhaps this really is a good example of Eclipse RNG and how it can effect Balance Druids.

Edit - From these two parses it would be easy to conclude that Balance DPS is not too low, however I'm not entirely sure this represents the average. I know that Yogi has a few of the Top 20 Druid DPS accounts thus far.

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Q u o t e:

Then, sometimes, my mind plays tricks on me since I see his proc, hes standing right infront of me, I see my character's back and I think I got it! Then BAM! Wrong proc. I die more inside.

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We have three Balance Druids in our raids. The number of times I've thought their Eclipse proc was my Eclipse proc....ugh, it makes me feel stupid every time it happens.

I now try and make it a habit to stand as far away from them as possible to avoid making that mistake. Sadly, this isn't always possible. I'm looking at you AoI and Auiraya!

Its mainly pvp that moonkins need lots of help.


In pve they seem to be doing ok , atm i guess.

http://wowwebstats.com/sowgqfdouou3k

In the Ignis fight, I was assigned to destroying adds.

Moonkins are better now that DKs and Hunters and some other bullsht mechanics have been removed from the game, but its not enough. We still suffer from the same issues that every caster does (cast times, finite mana, line of sight,e tc) and this only compounded by our poor damage mitigation and mobility while under fire / CC'd.


PvE: meh. Ruff on the edge. Fine overall.

@Murmurs
I guess I'm lucky to be my guild's only Boomkin...

Well here is me in action in some of my guild's raids....

4/21/09

Razorscale - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3312098#damageout
(I was in charge of shooting the Turrets)

Deconstructor - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3312103#damageout

Iron Council - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3312104#damageout

Ignis Furnace Master - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3312111#damageout
(I was in charge of killing the adds after they got Molten and went in the water)


4/22/09

Kologarn - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3361912#damageout

Auriaya - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3361915#damageout

Hodir - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3361916#damageout
(I died early but I did pretty good DPS, look at my Actual DPS)


4/23/09

Thorim - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3408770#damageout
(I was in Gauntlet Group, along with the all other casters except 1 of the warlocks, I didn't join my combat log with somebody who stayed in the colosseum, so Hunters/Melee numbers may be off.)


4/26/09

Freya - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3505824#damageout


4/27/09

Mimiron - http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3541540#damageout
(I died pretty early in the last phase here I think, so did a lot of other people)

***EDIT - I pretty much use the standard rotation for proccing Lunar Eclipses. The way I try to gear myself is to be as close to 400 haste as possible, and then try and stack crit.... Not as in gemming, but as in what gear I pick up.

Yogg(not bad parse):

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3367357#damageout

Ignis:

(one of my better ones)
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3367359#damageout

(one of my, not so good, ones)
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3751204#damageout

Vezax:

This was a funny one. The tank died near the end, and I kited the boss for the last 30 seconds or so due to my nice threat level.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3367356#damageout

Thorim (hard mode):

This fight is just damn unfriendly. Sometimes I'd have to toss out a wrath just to keep earth&moon going. Once I even abandoned Lunar for Solar. Sooo much eclipse wasted due to movement. Shifted 8 times to break movement impairing effects...etc..etc..

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/3934147#damageout

Unfortunately WWS still doesn't parse many of the fights properly, which is why I include these instead.
How you look on a parse will also vary a lot depending on your guild's strat and your role in that particular encounter.

I think we're fine right now.

What does "right now" mean?

It means with most other classes still holding onto their T7 while gathering more T8. I think the real issue is that our gear will not complement our talents as well as other classes as we progress into ulduar.

If everything is ok "right now," how will it be ok in a few weeks with everyone rocking their completed T8 sets? How are we to compete without gear upgrades?

That is my fear.

And I loathe the buff to spirit->spell damage. We don't need buffs. We are fine, but our gear needs reitemization. Badly.

Please blizzard. Stop buffing us (how often do you hear that?). Reitemize our gear.

/on hands and knees


EDIT:

My parses:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/browse/guild/20566

my server lags too badly to give accurate data(plus I rarely flask), but here's last weeks.

http://wowwebstats.com/uq3rs6f5sblxq

XT 4/30: http://wowwebstats.com/v3zkeurkoc6x5?s=272502-307632

Kologarn 4/30: http://wowwebstats.com/v3zkeurkoc6x5?s=427191-472906

I know wws doesn't parse Iron Council correctly, but this is steelbreaker: http://wowwebstats.com/v3zkeurkoc6x5?s=511818-539270

XT from 5/7 is a horrible parse, as I only had 80% dps time, and low presence.

Kologarn 5/7: http://wowwebstats.com/2vbiorhpixnuk?s=329757-370240

Again, I know wws doesn't parse IC correctly, but here's the 5/7 kill: http://wowwebstats.com/2vbiorhpixnuk?s=409543-432035

I'd link Ignis, but I'm on shatter duty, which hurts my dps, thus isn't a good representation of what is possible for a balance druid on that fight.

For S&Gs though here's a guild arcavon/emalon run from 5/7 so no raid group makeups have changed:
Arcavon: http://wowwebstats.com/2vbiorhpixnuk?s=584607-608489
Emalon: http://wowwebstats.com/2vbiorhpixnuk?s=621129-657990

It seems very common for Balance Druids to be assigned to shattering... I'm the only one in my guild, and I'm usually assigned to shattering Brittle'd Constructs.

My guild raids weekends, and we compile the reports Sunday nights, so I'll probably come back to this thread at the end of the weekend with a full set of parses from 10man, or at least from most of it.