World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings

Blash

< Elite Chaos >

Haomarush

40. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:04:18 AM PDT

Removed my post because there's some confusion about HoTs still. Good luck, druids.

[ Post edited by Blash ]

Return

< Altercation >

Magtheridon

41. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:04:41 AM PDT

So you get a shield every 45 seconds. You can't control the proc.

Here's an example where this would suck:

Tank is getting lightly hit, so you decide to raid heal. You heal some DPS, and the shield procs. So now your DPS you healed has a small shield. Whoop-dee-doo. You could spam the tank, but you're wasting mana, overhealing 90% for a minimal damage shield. The proc isn't worth it.

I just foresee this proc as going off at random, inopportune times.

Very meh.

Warrior-Druid in the 2v2ruid category is currently the hurricane Katrina of WOW. - Mokrol

Tenjin

< Darklords >

Area 52

42. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:05:00 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
The proc is generally better for tank healers rather than raid healers. In order for it to be effective in a raid healers hand, the people healed would have to take additional damage within an 8 second window. Granted, that happens alot, but not all the time. The mace will do much better in the hands of a MT healer because the proc is guaranteed to be 100% efficient. The question then is, which MT healer can use the proc best? The answer is whoever can put out the most HPS within the procs window, i.e. paladins. A large portion of a Disc priests HPS is in absorption, which will not proc the shield. No other healer comes close to paladins when we're talking about max HPS on one target, not counting shields.

Bornakk has now confirmed. In the highest sense, the mace is not equally useful for every healer. Whether or not there is a big enough difference between classes is up to each guild.

It really depends on your group make-up to be honest with you. It can be argued that a druid tank healer that secondary heals the raid will make the best use of the buff. You're correct that it's significantly more efficient for a tank healer though.

Melee takes a lot of damage usually from a boss, so a druid tank healer can throw a wild growth on the tank or the melee, and EACH TICK of WG on each player has a chance to proc the shield. In which case, every tick after throws a small shield on those players (likely wasted) while giving said tank healing druid the buff to continue spamming heals on the tank.

With a crit build for a druid (yes, crit build)--when the rest of the druid talents proc you can lay on a huge damage shield pretty quickly, not to mention if you're already rolling hots on the tank (lifebloom and rejuvenation), all of which contribute to the shield overhealing or not.

The druid formerly known as Ako

Paininabox

< Plays Well With Othe… >

Runetotem

43. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:05:06 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

If you read it, it says that the shield will include the overheal from the tick and every tick after that tick--stacking until it can absorb up to 20K damage in 8 seconds.

I did read it, which is why I quoted the exact same thing you just paraphrased. My question is if this overheal-into-shield mechanic included full overheal hot ticks. The game has a long history of full overheal hot ticks being ignored.

My mind is a mercenary. It fights for those that pay the most sense.

Telorith

< TBA >

Black Dragonflight

44. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:06:00 AM PDT

Three Questions:

Does the shield stack if two healers with the mace are healing the same tank?

IE: Druid has hots rolling procing the shield at the same time that a paladin is procing the shield. Does the thank receive BOTH shields or would the healers be required to try and roll their procs (which seems rather impossible) so that they never have it at the same time?

Secondly; does the internal cooldown start ticking as soon as the proc happens or after it's duration expiries? Most CDs seem to start ticking as soon as the effect is applied; but a clarification here would be helpful (I understand if you don't wish to give it; but I had to try!)

Lastly; aoe heals count for this? Does CoH proc the shield on all those it heals if you have the buff rolling? Would beacon of light spread it to both targets being healed?

Graci

[ Post edited by Telorith ]

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

45. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:07:25 AM PDT

To answer some questions:

1) If you are lucky enough to have two hammers in your group, then they will both contribute to the same bubble.

2) It should work as you would expect with PW:Shield and similar effects. Specifically, the damage should work through one shield and then the other. I don't know off the top of my head which one is used first. Sometimes we have edge cases with multiple absorbs like this that we will need to solve as they arise. (To be clear, PW:Shield will not proc the blessing or the bubble though, because it does not heal.)

3) If you have the blessing (i.e. you caused healing and the proc occured) then overhealing will count towards the bubble. Hots that tick on a target will still contribute to the bubble. You can also choose to switch to a direct heal if you don't have enough GCDs available to get all of your hots up before the blessing fades. The confusing part here is that hots that don't heal won't cause the blessing (we didn't want you fishing for the bubble before a pull by constantly healing the tank, though I suppose you could if your tank was injured). But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing.

We'll leave it to you guys to theorycraft out if you think the hammer is marginally better for one class than another. Some players were speculating before this announcement that the bubble only applied to one spell, which would definitely favor Holy Light. We implemented it the way we did to make sure the other healing classes could still get juicy bubbles while the blessing was active (which is 15 sec).

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Sopheea

< THE ALL MiGHTY >

Suramar

46. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:07:44 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Example 2: A druid casts Rejuv on the tank, healing her. The Blessing procs on the druid on the second tick. A shield is applied to the tank which absorbs 15% of the amount healed by that tick and each remaining tick of the Rejuv. If the druid also gets Lifebloom and Regrowth on the tank while the Blessing is up, then those ticks also contribute to the shield. If the shield goes down because the 8 sec duration expires or it absorbs that much damage, it can go up again as long as the Blessing lasts, which is 15 sec.

The bolded part is confusing.

It seems as if you're saying in the first sentence that when a HoT tick procs a shield, it will create a shield for that tick AND the remainder of the HoT. So say my Rejuv is ticking for 3k, and a tick procs the shield when it has 3 ticks remaining, the shield will proc for 15% of 4 ticks or 1800.

But then in the second sentence you seem to say that only the ticks of Lifebloom and Regrowth that occur during the buff will contribute to the shield.

So, which is it? Or, Is it only the "proccing" HoT that gets its full duration added in?

What if it's Lifebloom? Does it account for the bloom portion of the heal? If it does, how so? Since it can crit or be rolled, I'm guessing not. Does it only count one stack or all three?

You know, it might have just been easier to put a proc on the weapon that you guys were capable of explaining, without needing several days and several paragraphs to still not clear everything up... Just sayin'.

Ainx

< Still Life >

Kilrogg

47. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:08:42 AM PDT

That's a pretty terrible proc, unless I'm not understanding correctly.

General Vezax hits Ainx for 25k. I absorb 1500 of it from this proc, so I got hit for 23500. Then I got parried on my shield slam and Vezax smoked me for 25k again at 40% faster swing speed. No sign of the shield and I'm a corpse.

Edit: so overhealing does contribute to the bubble as long as you have the blessing... but you have to have a heal actually be effective on the target to proc the blessing.

[ Post edited by Ainx ]

www.stilllifeguild.com

Ownos

Bronzebeard

48. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:11:11 AM PDT

This weapon is by far best for tank healers/healing. As any disc priest knows its always best to place a shield on people that is likely to take damage i.e. the tank and the noob rogue for maximum benefit. Seeing how disc doesn't put out actual big healing this rules them out already since I'm sure it won't proc on PW:S or aegis. Raid healing is usually bursty and the way raid damage can be done is usually less predictable and changes from fight to fight.

With that said I'd rank priority as:

Paladin > all other healers > Disc priests

Obviously even if that is so you probably don't want to give it to the pally that has 25% raid attendance anyway.

http://learn2play.ytmnd.com/
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Knoway

< Cleave Edge >

Perenolde

49. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:11:30 AM PDT

Resto druid gains Blessing of Ancient Kings.

Resto druid casts Tranquility.

Now to figure out how to time this to coincide with heavy raid damage . . .

Remedie

Thrall

50. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:11:33 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
The proc is generally better for tank healers rather than raid healers. In order for it to be effective in a raid healers hand, the people healed would have to take additional damage within an 8 second window. Granted, that happens alot, but not all the time. The mace will do much better in the hands of a MT healer because the proc is guaranteed to be 100% efficient.

Increased healing only matters at all when people take more damage, otherwise it's a nice bump on the meter and nothing more. So the "lack" for raid healing is only when they don't take damage within 8 seconds, then do before someone can heal them. That doesn't seem like such a common occurance to warrant "much better".

Q u o t e:
A large portion of a Disc priests HPS is in absorption, which will not proc the shield.

How much HPS on a single target comes from PW:S? After the last round of changes is a disc priest really competitive with a holy pally for MT duties? If so, would you change MT healers because you could give the pally the hammer?

Tenjin

< Darklords >

Area 52

51. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:12:16 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
That's a pretty terrible proc, unless I'm not understanding correctly.

General Vezax hits Ainx for 25k. I absorb 1500 of it from this proc, so I got hit for 23500. Then I got parried on my shield slam and Vezax smoked me for 25k again at 40% faster swing speed. No sign of the shield and I'm a corpse.

Edit: so overhealing does contribute to the bubble as long as you have the blessing... but you have to have a heal actually be effective on the target to proc the blessing.

You're reading it incorrectly.

The shield stacks.

This means as long as the tank healer is healing you while he has the buff 15% of whatever he throws on you, even if it is overheal, will get added to the damage shield.

The druid formerly known as Ako

Poena

< Shard >

Azjol-Nerub

52. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:12:47 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
We have received many questions about how the proc works on Val’anyr, the Hammer of the Ancient Kings. While we originally intended for this effect to be a mystery, we realize that guilds now know what the tooltip on the proc says without necessarily knowing the details on how it works. This leads to situations where a healer may not know if assembling the hammer is worth it for them (hint: it is), and perhaps even worse, a misinformed leader may not think you deserve the hammer (hint: you do).

Players also wonder if the proc makes the item deserving of its legendary status given that the stat allocation is normal for items of its item level (Hint: it does).

No... this is not good. The proc does not make up for the lack of stats unless you are a high output healing class healing a target that will be garunteed to take damage within the next 8 seconds.

Seriously... This is a Holy Paladin weapon and serves very little purpose to the majority of healing classes who are not main tank healing. You seem to miss what the proc of this weapon does... IT PUTS A SHIELD UP THAT ONLY LASTS EIGHT SECONDS. In the vast majority of all raiding situations this will only be useful on the main tank. In the vast majority of raiding situations if this were used on a class that was primarily a raid healer, their target would not be hit again in the 8 second window that the shield you put on up on the target lasts for...

As for Resto Druids... I'm sorry... you got completely boned by this weapon. It is nearly 100% worthless to you.

As a Disc Priest getting this weapon? I feel completely left in the dark because this weapon only works on your actual healing output (something we have the lowest of any healer because we already put bubbles on our targets). As a Disc Priest, a GM, A raid leader, A player with 95% attendance, I'm really upset that I got the first fragment because now I know it should go to a Holy Paladin without thought or question.

Congratulations Holy Paladin's on having a weapon made perfectly for you. You guys deserve it.

As to the rest of the healers, sorry guys... I guess we weren't really meant to get a healing legendary...

Charsi

< Critical Mass >

Stormrage

53. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:12:48 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
2) It should work as you would expect with PW:Shield and similar effects. Specifically, the damage should work through one shield and then the other. I don't know off the top of my head which one is used first. Sometimes we have edge cases with multiple absorbs like this that we will need to solve as they arise. (To be clear, PW:Shield will not proc the blessing or the bubble though, because it does not heal.)

On a related note, is it possible to get some kind of combat log indication of which shield or whose shield absorbed a particular effect... not related to this legendary, but in general, more information about absorbs into the combat log?

One of the disc priests in my guild was researching shielding, their priorities, etc etc and he was very interested in figuring it all out.

Q u o t e:
(we didn't want you fishing for the bubble before a pull by constantly healing the tank, though I suppose you could if your tank was injured).

Time to overwrite my Glyph of Bloodrage.

Q u o t e:
We'll leave it to you guys to theorycraft out if you think the hammer is marginally better for one class than another. Some players were speculating before this announcement that the bubble only applied to one spell, which would definitely favor Holy Light. We implemented it the way we did to make sure the other healing classes could still get juicy bubbles while the blessing was active (which is 15 sec).

I'm surprised that the bubble "grows". That's a good effect that makes it redeemable for, say, Druids.

The place you'll get the most mileage out of a absorb bubble, however, is almost always a tank, and the person most often throwing gigantic heals at a tank is a Paladin. So.... yeah. Inc QQ particularly by shammies I guess?

[ Post edited by Charsi ]

Ethos

< Tribunal >

Thaurissan

54. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:13:07 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
(To be clear, PW:Shield will not proc the blessing or the bubble though, because it does not heal.)

:( So its pretty much detrimental giving us more pretty bubbles?

Ethos' healing is like sex, you don't have to have had it to know you love it.

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< Altercation >

Magtheridon

56. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:14:59 AM PDT

Healing requires consistency. Chance-on-cast procs should be left for DPS.

A better proc would be:

Your heals place a shield on the target for 5% of total healing done. This effect can stack up to 2,500 damage. When the shield is removed, the target explodes in holy light, healing all party/raid members within 10 yards for 2% of the target's maximum health.

[ Post edited by Return ]

Warrior-Druid in the 2v2ruid category is currently the hurricane Katrina of WOW. - Mokrol

Ainx

< Still Life >

Kilrogg

57. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:15:24 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

You're reading it incorrectly.

The shield stacks.

This means as long as the tank healer is healing you while he has the buff 15% of whatever he throws on you, even if it is overheal, will get added to the damage shield.

Right, my example included me getting killed before another holy light landed. I guess the scenario would change if I dodged or parried, but even the max amount absorbed (20,000) is like half a hit of Thorim HM and 1/3 a hit of Steelbreaker. And to get up to 20,000 you have to dodge or parry like 8-10 times? =/

Edit: Also I'm assuming this was created with the future in mind because currently 8 seconds of shield is not long enough to get up to 20,000 from a single healer afaik.

[ Post edited by Ainx ]

www.stilllifeguild.com

Charsi

< Critical Mass >

Stormrage

58. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:16:38 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Will it proc off Judgement of Light (effective heals) and will the heals from JoL proc shields when the effect is active?

Good question, wtb answer, lots of little weak semi-useless shields ftw! (What would they absorb, like 100 damage?)

[ Post edited by Charsi ]

Suzushiro

< Raze >

Winterhoof

59. Re: Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings 05/04/2009 11:17:45 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing.

So wait, does that include hots that don't tick at all due to the target being full?

(And while we're on the subject, why does that mechanic even exist anyway? Seems like all it does is reduce druid overheal numbers.)

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