World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Exorcism can no longer be used on players

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

0. Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:33:32 PM PDT

We made a change in the 3.1.1 patch to prevent Exorcism from being used on players. We didn’t announce this change ahead of time because we were trying to get the tooltip changed at the same time to reduce confusion. We still plan on getting the tooltip updated ASAP. Exorcism’s use in PvE has not changed at this time.

Going with a “not on players” solution is not ideal and we will be re-designing how the ability works in a future patch (the plan is sooner rather than later). We don’t like for PvE and PvP mechanics to work differently when we can avoid it. We also don’t like for a major damaging ability to be excluded from the PvP game. However, we thought this had become a balance issue serious enough to address at this time.

We shifted around paladin damage for 3.1 trying to increase sustained damage while reducing burst damage. Unfortunately, the Exorcism change did the opposite. Instead of stealing a GCD from a paladin, it actually gave them an extra one. A Retribution paladin could use Exorcism to cause damage while closing to melee and then be ready to go with their melee damage attacks. (Exorcism of course is not limited to Ret paladins either.) We changed the way paladins do damage for Lich King, so while it is unfortunate (and we accept full blame), it also isn’t too surprising that it is taking some effort to get their damage in the right place.

In the same patch where we remove the “not on players” limitation for Exorcism, we are going to change the way paladins do damage so that their normal combat moves have more depth to them instead of just using abilities every time they finish their cooldown. This should make causing damage as a paladin more interesting and also less bursty. While we have some ideas on how to accomplish that, if you have suggestions or your own ideas about how this could work, this would be a good time to share them. (As examples of abilities you don’t just use whenever their cooldown has finished, you might look at Conflagrate, Brain Freeze, Rip, Overpower or Arcane Blast.) We do request that you don’t fill the forums with posts of limited content or insight about how you don’t like to be nerfed. Nobody does.

It is always a judgment call about when a fix (a buff or a nerf) can’t wait. Some things we can’t change easily in hotfixes or small patches, and some things we consider too risky for technical reasons or for their potential effects on the game.

Ghostcrawler
Lead Systems Designer

Soulsphere

< Ouroboros >

Kilrogg

1. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:37:44 PM PDT

Pally curse of doom, sweet. I should go play lotto.

[ Post edited by Soulsphere ]

Madam, in Eden, I'm Adam.

Hofflerand

< Chivalry >

Lightning's Blade

2. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:38:05 PM PDT

Cool! Our combat system is pretty boring at the moment. I hope Blizzard is careful not to make our abilities too situational. For example, you almost made Crusader Strike like Overpower. This would have forced us to sit back on our highest damaging attack. While you're reviewing our instants, you might want to take a look at the seal system as well. It's boring and clunky.

I'm looking forward to our combat system evolving and I hope it's not too far in the future.

Great resource for Retadins: www.retpaladin.com
My Ret paladin PvP blog: http://hofflerand.blogspot.com/

Tande

Blackhand

3. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:38:11 PM PDT

Does this mean that Arena Season 6 is going to be another wash for Paladins because you took out an important ability and have replaced it with nothing.? Yes, maybe at some point down the line you will, but for now there is no replacement and we will suffer because of it.

[ Post edited by Tande ]

Bigsteak

< EX SOLDIER >

Bladefist

5. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:40:37 PM PDT

Sounds great and all, the possibility of changing Ret's gameplay mechanics, but action should probably be taken, like ya said, SOONER rather than later, as this change could be a real gamebreaker for Ret in arena this season.

[ Post edited by Bigsteak ]

Zalluth

< Thieves and Kings >

Tortheldrin

6. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:42:13 PM PDT

Well at least Holy PvP was fun for about a week
For the first time in a while I was actually getting kills, not dying to everything because I couldn't do enough damage to actually kill them, PvP was actually exhilarating which was actually a rather nice change

[ Post edited by Zalluth ]

Icecrown Citadel isn't patched in yet because the devs are still trying to get Arthas out from under the covers after he read the wotlk ret upgrades.

Judacis

< VoS >

Sargeras

7. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:42:39 PM PDT

Sweet, so we'll have to wait till 3.2 for these changes?

Vorteks

< Now With More Sodium >

Stonemaul

8. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:43:08 PM PDT

Thanks for leaving deathknights op for the entire season

Was a ranged attack for paladins every 15 seconds really that big of a deal?

DK's deathcoil form 30 yards, why cant we do something like that since we have no gap closer?

[ Post edited by Vorteks ]

Mogonar

< The Eleventh Hour >

Earthen Ring

9. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:43:09 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
It is always a judgment call

I see what you did there.

Sioce

Drenden

12. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:43:56 PM PDT

Sorry GC.
This was uncalled for right at the beginning of an arena season.
Push off the start until you get your stuff together than start it.
Nerfing Paladin Dps into the dirt and saying sorry we will make it better later is not acceptable.

Yes paladin damage is very "bursty" but it is all we know.
Redesigning the way we do damage at the beginning of the season guarantees we will not "be all we can be" as we will have no idea of how to do so.

Give back the damage of judgments. Make exorcism a closer range spell. Remove the glyph that increases the damage by 20% or remove the 15% talented increase.
Any of these would have been better that removing it arbitrarlily with no warning whatsoever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

Redharc

< Umbilical Horde >

Onyxia

13. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:44:34 PM PDT

w00t
Nerf us in PvP, the damage nerfs with judgements and talents plus mana regen changes weren't enough.

Thanks.

http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html

Stunning

< Reading is Fundament… >

Destromath

14. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:45:14 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
In the same patch where we remove the “not on players” limitation for Exorcism, we are going to change the way paladins do damage so that their normal combat moves have more depth to them instead of just using abilities every time they finish their cooldown. This should make causing damage as a paladin more interesting and also less bursty.

i await great things. just be sure to include the "great"

Ret buffs are like scrolls, they only last for a short while before vanishing into thin air.

Wytchocolate

< Hate >

Black Dragonflight

15. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:45:16 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Sorry GC.
This was uncalled for right at the beginning of an arena season.
Push off the start until you get your stuff together than start it.
Nerfing Paladin Dps into the dirt and saying sorry we will make it better later is not acceptable.

Yes paladin damage is very "bursty" but it is all we know.
Redesigning the way we do damage at the beginning of the season guarantees we will not "be all we can be" as we will have no idea of how to do so.

Give back the damage of judgments. Make exorcism a closer range spell. Remove the glyph that increases the damage by 20% or remove the 15% talented increase.
Any of these would have been better that removing it arbitrarlily with no warning whatsoever.

Newsflash, you had the ability for a week.

Aleghra

< Represent >

Uther

16. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:45:18 PM PDT

This is a great explanation GC and I and I'm sure others here really appreciate the response. Though I'm saddened that Exorcism can no longer be used on players, I'm quite pleased and excited to hear Blizzard is trying to make Paladin damage more interesting. Because truth is its very boring atm. Protection seems ok with damage, they are more interesting than ret. But ret suffers from being over simple and relying on 3 buttons to do damage.

I made my dual spec ret because exorcism sort of made ret more interesting, it was better than pressing 1, 2, 3 repeat. Exorcism gave ret a bit more depth and a way to approach dealing damage. But I can completely understand the change. No complaints.

Avox

< SOULJA BOY TELL EM >

Bloodscalp

17. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:45:40 PM PDT

Not every paladin is ret . . .

Rorinn

< Victorious Secret >

Medivh

18. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:45:42 PM PDT

Can I haz interrupt/snare/distancecloser/toolsofameleeclass nao?

kthx

Q u o t e:
We made a change in the 3.1.1 patch to prevent Exorcism from being used on players. We didn’t announce this change ahead of time because we were trying to get the tooltip changed at the same time to reduce confusion. We still plan on getting the tooltip updated ASAP. Exorcism’s use in PvE has not changed at this time.

Going with a “not on players” solution is not ideal and we will be re-designing how the ability works in a future patch (the plan is sooner rather than later). We don’t like for PvE and PvP mechanics to work differently when we can avoid it. We also don’t like for a major damaging ability to be excluded from the PvP game. However, we thought this had become a balance issue serious enough to address at this time.

We shifted around paladin damage for 3.1 trying to increase sustained damage while reducing burst damage. Unfortunately, the Exorcism change did the opposite. Instead of stealing a GCD from a paladin, it actually gave them an extra one. A Retribution paladin could use Exorcism to cause damage while closing to melee and then be ready to go with their melee damage attacks. (Exorcism of course is not limited to Ret paladins either.) We changed the way paladins do damage for Lich King, so while it is unfortunate (and we accept full blame), it also isn’t too surprising that it is taking some effort to get their damage in the right place.

In the same patch where we remove the “not on players” limitation for Exorcism, we are going to change the way paladins do damage so that their normal combat moves have more depth to them instead of just using abilities every time they finish their cooldown. This should make causing damage as a paladin more interesting and also less bursty. While we have some ideas on how to accomplish that, if you have suggestions or your own ideas about how this could work, this would be a good time to share them. (As examples of abilities you don’t just use whenever their cooldown has finished, you might look at Conflagrate, Brain Freeze, Rip, Overpower or Arcane Blast.) We do request that you don’t fill the forums with posts of limited content or insight about how you don’t like to be nerfed. Nobody does.

It is always a judgment call about when a fix (a buff or a nerf) can’t wait. Some things we can’t change easily in hotfixes or small patches, and some things we consider too risky for technical reasons or for their potential effects on the game.

Bulwyth

< Phoenix >

Greymane

19. Re: Exorcism can no longer be used on players 04/21/2009 02:45:52 PM PDT

I, for one, think it is hilarious that when pallies have a decent ranged attack for 1 week it gets stealth nerfed based on QQ from BG's, but when DK's have an even better ability that hits harder, can be used 3 times as often, and applies a debuff it takes months to get nerfed.

Why is it that ret pallies are the only spec in the game that are constantly nerfed within a week of a change, with absolutely no warning? It is getting ridiculous.

To be honest, this change needed to come with our promised utility via CS or some other form, or you threaten to kill ret. Our burst was already in the crapper since the judgement change, our 1 interrupt is on the GCD and an even longer CD that ever, and we have no way to prevent getting kited against a team with an offensive dispeller (good thing disc priests will only be on like 60% of teams this season right?).

Blizzard needs to start sticking to its word and stop balancing the game around 1v1 in BG's and forum QQ, which is obviously the culprit here.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7578/wowscrnshot020209205917ft8.jpg
^LOL

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