(Repost from Suggestions for discussion, sorry)

Note.. This is not a 'we want classic server' type request at all, please read on.

I think that while the WoW expansions thus far have been great fun, there's a disconnect between the content that smacks of a sort of laziness on the design side - just taking a zeppelin to a whole other game, and nothing really has any relationship to another..

You (Blizzard) have noted this in vague developer remarks about how you felt Outland was too much of a departure from Azeroth. In WOTLK, you somewhat drove this point home, choosing the continent of Northrend, basically right above the (old) Azeroth continents, and designing the landscapes to be much more similar to Azeroth. There are even quests that require you to go to Azeroth and end up in spots you previously have never gone to (like the one quest where you teleport high up into the Un'goro hills). Even in BC, having Eversong/Ghostlands (and later, Quel'danas) be 'in Azeroth' was very cool - though the technology/access restrictions and loading screens did make it kind of clunky.

These things greatly help the game feel like a cohesive whole rather than a set of new games and entire worlds strung together by a transportation gimmick. I highly recommend that you develop this idea further in future expansions.

The next expansion is rumored to involve the great sea / the maelstrom / or emerald dream. Introducing players to this content is a perfect chance to reintroduce areas of Azeroth, possibly unlocking previously 'locked' and/or undeveloped zones. They don't have to be areas where you actually level up in the 80s.. (though they easily could be that too). Think the new stormwind docks - players loved that, and all sorts of areas are ripe for further development. Gilneas + Zul'Dare, Grim Batol, Hyjal, southeast of Badlands, southern Tanaris - the list goes on and on and is well known. In the case of a Great Sea expansion ,many areas of the beautiful Azeroth coast could be developed as staging areas and transportation/quest hubs for exploring off the coast. Many questlines could tie into these spruced-up old zones.

Not only would it make the game feel more cohesive, but it would help with another often stated goal of the developers which is to have there be more meeting between low and high level characters. If say, Tirisfal Grove (west of the undead starting area) were one of these areas, newbie players would have the hustle and bustle of serious end-game-ish play going on around them and would be quite exciting compared to the rather drab emptiness people currently experience in starting areas. How cool would it be for a new player to zone in and see an army of horde taking a flightpath overhead above Deathknell? How cool would it be to have the dragon portals in Azeroth be the key to entering various areas of the Emerald Dream?

To expand a bit on something mentioned briefly above, One of the greatest successes of TBC in most peoples opinion was Quel'Danas. The daily quests, world event, and instances (both 5 man and raid) were by all accounts some of the most enjoyable and admired content blizzard has yet put into the game. People also enjoyed what was done to Stormwind, the new goblin town in Dustwallow, etc. I'm not saying, as people often do, that attention should be paid to old areas for the sake of lowbie leveling or questing. I'm talking about 80-90 and ENDGAME having a relationship to what has gone before and not just be another self-contained train stop in a series of expansions.

I'm sure some of the imaginative people on these forums can come up with even more specific recommendations to flesh this sort of thing out, but in general I just wanted to get a thread noticed that brings up something a lot of people appreciate -- making the game cohesive. There have been a lot of forum posts relating to this, a lot of developer comments leading in this direction - I just hope it really gets followed through on for the next expansion.

Please add your thoughts..
Thanks


EDIT: pasting in actual ideas from later in the thread, so this doesn't come off as a whine..
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I thought a bit and came up with some ideas to flesh out what I was talking about:

Eastern Kingdoms:

1. Horde: Flight path from UC to Gilneas coast

2. Gilneas coast has a Booty Bay-sized town with a boat you can only board if you buy the expansion. This is easily implemented: expansion accounts get a key-ring item that opens up some sort of phased door that only opens for you visually if you have the expansion/key, otherwise remains visually shut. Gilneas is the first (possibly of two ,a la WOTLK) 78-82 zone but is more horde friendly to get to. (no quest givers avaiable if you haven't bought expansion to open 90-cap)

3. Alliance: Flight path from IF to Grim Batol -another 78-82 ish 'underground' zone that is more friendly for alliance to get to and their 'east side' entrance to the expansion.

4. Boats from Gilneas and Stormwind go to Kul Tiras, the first off-coast questing zone for low 80s..

5. Zul'Dare location of first low-80s instance like UtKeep, both H and A fight more trolls here.

6. Crestfall - maybe its own mini-zone, a naga NPC area with another instance.

Kalimdor:

1. Horde: Orgrimmar FP to a new horde camp on the southern headlands of Azshara -- maybe even some kind of more interesting 'flightpath' like the lich king turtle - i don't know, change it up here. From here Horde travels to Tel'Abim another low 80s zone, with another access restriction method like the above.

The easy way out would be for the horde's entrance to the 'west side' of the expansion to be to boat from Ratchet but that would be terribly boring. Imagine the eastern part of Azshara built up with some quests related to naga history which foreshadow meeting Queen Azshara.. maybe even have the eastern/southern part of the zone expanded out into the ocean a bit and have some >80 mobs/quests.

2. Alliance: completely new buildout of theramore isle in dustwallow, ala Stormwind Harbor. Boat here to Tel'Abim


From these vantage points and tie-ins, the middle and late 80s zones would move closer and closer to the center of the Maelstrom -- Kezan, Zandalar (troll HQ of course), Plunder Isle (fight duke falrevere etc, in a huge instance reminiscent of Deadmines), Broken Isles, etc.. finally the Maelstrom is a max level zone with the final raid instances and Queen Azshara as the last boss, in Nazjatar..

I'm not a huge lore nerd so Im sure i crossed some stuff up but what do you guys think?

Northrend is in Azeroth.

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Q u o t e:
Northrend is in Azeroth.

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Point taken, pretend I said Vanilla WoW.

I read all of this because it was well written and informative but I doubt many people would, a condensed version will probably get more responses.

Besides, you already took your first troll response calmly, lol. But I do agree that it would be awesome to get all of that old content fleshed out, however, though it would be great to see all those quests near lower level areas, they would just be empty again once everyone got to the next level cap.

I think a lot of the areas will be used to start off new races and places and I can see where you are coming from, but I highly doubt it will be done to great effect, although Blizzard claims they want people to experience the old content if they wish, they make no incentive besides achievements to do so, and create many many ways to easily bypass (ex. dalaran portals) vanilla wow.

Like if as you said, the emerald dream gateways were located in the boughs, it would be like the dark portal, only used once per character and the next city made the hearth center.

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Q u o t e:

Like if as you said, the emerald dream gateways were located in the boughs, it would be like the dark portal, only used once per character and the next city made the hearth center.

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It seemed more like his goal was to force players to go to the various dragon portals every time they wanted to enter the Dream. One certainly wouldn't say that locating the Dark Portal in the Blasted Lands helped tie Azeroth to Outland, and encouraged high and low characters to mingle.

Well written and certainly deserving of a bump.

I have nothing constructive to say as this was already written very constructively itself.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Well I do think that part of the reason Lich King is considered by most to be more successful than BC, has to do with the cohesion.

I think the designers just have to go at designing the next expansion with a more open mind if they want to be able to integrate it like you say. It's much easier to just start with a blank slate (and some lore of course) and a new map that you take a boat to.

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Q u o t e:
It's much easier to just start with a blank slate (and some lore of course) and a new map that you take a boat to.

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it's also fairly necessary, unless Blizzard decides to open up future expansion content to people who haven't purchased said expansions.

You forogt to mention Kul Tiras, the land east of redridge(look at the map, seems like something should be there), Ulduar, and Undermine, but you did make excellent points. Well written post!

bump for justice!

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Q u o t e:
I bet the Maelstrom whatever that is planned will use a good portion of Northern Kalimdor as it's disembarking point.

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Good chance to tie in Azshara, is that what you're getting at sir??

Wow. good idea even though you thought of it not me.

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Q u o t e:
I bet the Maelstrom whatever that is planned will use a good portion of Northern Kalimdor as it's disembarking point.

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I'm betting it's Maelstrom it will give them the chance to create underwater cities and add water mounts which will be a big deal if the entire expansion (except cities & instances) takes place underwater.

If the next expansion is the Maelstrom, directly between the old continents, it probably will have developed/updated embarking points on either side (probably gilneas and azshara) but otherwise will just be a new loading screen and a new area.

Sorry to say but that makes the most sense... I appreciate wanting to have a hand in shaping future decisions but the next expansion has probably already been designed past a point where they could decide to integrate more of the old zones.

It IS interesting that that document floating around in mid '07 that claimed to be from WoW beta, perfectly laid out the WOTLK zones -- mentions Gilneas as being the first 80-90 zone and the 'gateway' to the Maelstrom zones.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were laid out in an 'island chain' as mentioned before, where you go from one zone to the next island hopping until you're directly between the continents. Throw in a loading screen somewhere or something that acts like fatigue for people who havent bought the expansion.

BUMP for an actual good idea posted to the forums.

/bump maybe a blue still awake has some insight into Blizzard's thinking on this subject?