World of Warcraft

1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . 10 . 11 . 12 . 13 . 14 . 15 . 16 . 17 . 18 . 19 . 20
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Draka
  • 0. "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 09:44:46 AM PDT
quote reply
I wanna hear from Drysc on this one. Apparently someone changed their mind about this mechanic, and since he was so good at explaining it the first time around how about an encore?

Here's the daze mechanic explained back in June:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=115042266&sid=1

Here's the PTR notes about a month later:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=174505927&sid=1

bullet #6

Q u o t e:

Daze: Defense skill will no longer reduce the chance players have to receive the Daze effect when attacked from behind by enemies.


So, wanna tell us what's going on? Inquiring minds want to know.

"If I had to describe my reaction in one word, that word would be... WTF?!?!"

-Richard Jeni 1957-2007
14
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Turalyon
  • 1. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 09:54:53 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
I wanna hear from Drysc on this one. Apparently someone changed their mind about this mechanic, and since he was so good at explaining it the first time around how about an encore?

Here's the daze mechanic explained back in June:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=115042266&sid=1

Here's the PTR notes about a month later:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=174505927&sid=1

bullet #6


So, wanna tell us what's going on? Inquiring minds want to know.


Drysc actually kinda contradicts himself in his first post but he gets his point across.

"First an explanation on how the mechanic works. The chance to be dazed is determined by the character’s base defense rating as compared to the mobs level, or technically the defense of the character versus the attack skill of the mob"

First bold is the way daze was meant to act (and the way it is on the ptr now), it was a calculation using a character's base defense rating (always 5xlevel).

Second bold is the way daze was working, a character with increased defense (from talents or gear) had less of a chance to be dazed.


80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 2. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:05:13 AM PDT
quote reply
So, you want to crucify Drysc for something he said back in june and is now being changed in the PTR?

Must the CM's be held accountable for every little piece of infor the dare release to the public?

That was the way Dazed used to work, that was the intended mechanic back then. The developers never foresaw the possibility of having players with such a high defense rating that daze would not work on them.

Now they see it can happen, and they want to prevent that form happening because, whether you like it or not, daze is a game mechanic they want to keep working as intended.

So they are changing it in the PTR, and somehow Drysc was meant to know this back in June and be held trial by the forum trolls?

Damn immature kids.

Trolls do it with their Alts
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Draka
  • 3. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:07:29 AM PDT
quote reply
So if I have 490 defense, my daze chance is only figured in with my base 350? Why the change?

"If I had to describe my reaction in one word, that word would be... WTF?!?!"

-Richard Jeni 1957-2007
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 4. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:09:47 AM PDT
quote reply
Because it was clearly NOT working that way, just like the troll berserker ability. That was the intended way but it was bugging out somehow and players with high defense ratings were becoming immune to Daze. So now they are changing the mathematical model for Daze, so no one, under any circumstance, can become immune.

Trolls do it with their Alts
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Draka
  • 5. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:14:34 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
So, you want to crucify Drysc for something he said back in june and is now being changed in the PTR?

Must the CM's be held accountable for every little piece of infor the dare release to the public?

That was the way Dazed used to work, that was the intended mechanic back then. The developers never foresaw the possibility of having players with such a high defense rating that daze would not work on them.

Now they see it can happen, and they want to prevent that form happening because, whether you like it or not, daze is a game mechanic they want to keep working as intended.

So they are changing it in the PTR, and somehow Drysc was meant to know this back in June and be held trial by the forum trolls?

Damn immature kids.


Wait what? Read my post. At what point am I "crucifying" Drysc? Did I not compliment him for doing a good job on his first write up on the daze mechanic?

-edit-
Either way you taking shots at me adds nothing constructive to the post.. and yet you call me immature.

[ Post edited by Bunnies ]


"If I had to describe my reaction in one word, that word would be... WTF?!?!"

-Richard Jeni 1957-2007
60
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Ner'zhul
  • 6. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:24:06 AM PDT
quote reply
The way you worded your post made it sound like you wanted Drysc to come here and say

"I am so sorry, I was wrong, how can you ever forgive me. How could I have ever posted about mechanics that I somehow knew would change months later. /cry".

Perhaps I read into it incorrectly, but that was the vibe i was getting from you.

2. LOOK IT OVER
Blizzard Entertainment
View All Posts by This User ignore-inactive
Drysc
Blizzard Poster
  • 7. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:28:49 AM PDT
quote reply
Shortly after that write up, and due to us going back through the code, the programmers found that a character's defense as a whole was being taken in to account, and not just their base defense as intended. It was definitely our mistake in only looking at what values are taken into account when calculating daze, and not how those values are generated. They're separate bits of code in different locations, so it wasn't easily or immediately apparent.


Q u o t e:
Drysc actually kinda contradicts himself in his first post but he gets his point across.

"First an explanation on how the mechanic works. The chance to be dazed is determined by the character’s base defense rating as compared to the mobs level, or technically the defense of the character versus the attack skill of the mob"


It wasn't a contradiction, but a left out word could make it seem like there was a discrepancy.

"First an explanation on how the mechanic works. The chance to be dazed is determined by the character’s base defense rating as compared to the mobs level, or technically the base defense of the character versus the attack skill of the mob"

Works a little better for what was being stated. The addition of the word "base" makes all the difference in the world obviously. The intent was just to say that it's technically the attack skill of the mob, and not its level (although it's really just 5 x mob level).

The intention of the mechanic isn't that it punishes some classes or specs more than others, you shouldn't be punished more than someone else because you chose to play a priest instead of a warrior. The complaints that the mechanic was not working correctly and had increased or changed in the expansion is the only reason we investigated the mechanic further, and found an issue that we're now correcting.

It's obviously an unpopular mechanic as it can slow down a player, or can sometimes be the cause for a death. Anything that works to help ensure a player realizes or understands a mistake, unwise choice, and that potentially leads to a death is going to be unpopular. However, it's an important mechanic as it helps encourage caution and awareness. If you're not careful to stay out of aggro range of mobs, not careful to be patient in your pulls, or not aware of your surroundings or pathing mobs, then we want something that helps to ensure simply pulling a 180 and running away (coupled with class abilities) isn't always a guaranteed escape.

Sometimes you gotta grab life by the lips and YANK as hard as you can.
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Cenarion Circle
  • 9. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:30:41 AM PDT
quote reply
I don't see the problem here...

"Oooooomray!"
<Cult of Cookies>
66
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Mal'Ganis
  • 10. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:32:39 AM PDT
quote reply
Gee, does this even deserve an essay?

Are tanks so stupid that they get backstabbed by mobs?

It's worth pointing out that in all of the testing we've done so far, the mage has been the clear-cut top damage class in the expansion at level 70, even against single targets (hopefully not too much
77
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 11. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:34:35 AM PDT
quote reply
Important issue though:

Have you considered how this is goign to affect tanking?

There's no way that you could have just suddenly realized that tanks weren't getting dazed in instances. This is very important since it's such a mobile job.

Have you factored this into your up coming change?
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Cenarion Circle
  • 12. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:34:45 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
Shortly after that write up, and due to us going back through the code, the programmers found that a character's defense as a whole was being taken in to account, and not just their base defense as intended. It was definitely our mistake in only looking at what values are taken into account when calculating daze, and not how those values are generated. They're separate bits of code in different locations, so it wasn't easily or immediately apparent.



It wasn't a contradiction, but a left out word could make it seem like there was a discrepancy.

"First an explanation on how the mechanic works. The chance to be dazed is determined by the character’s base defense rating as compared to the mobs level, or technically the base defense of the character versus the attack skill of the mob"

Works a little better for what was being stated. The addition of the word "base" makes all the difference in the world obviously. The intent was just to say that it's technically the attack skill of the mob, and not its level (although it's really just 5 x mob level).

The intention of the mechanic isn't that it punishes some classes or specs more than others, you shouldn't be punished more than someone else because you chose to play a priest instead of a warrior. The complaints that the mechanic was not working correctly and had increased or changed in the expansion is the only reason we investigated the mechanic further, and found an issue that we're now correcting.

It's obviously an unpopular mechanic as it can slow down a player, or can sometimes be the cause for a death. Anything that works to help ensure a player realizes or understands a mistake, unwise choice, and that potentially leads to a death is going to be unpopular. However, it's an important mechanic as it helps encourage caution and awareness. If you're not careful to stay out of aggro range of mobs, not careful to be patient in your pulls, or not aware of your surroundings or pathing mobs, then we want something that helps to ensure simply pulling a 180 and running away (coupled with class abilities) isn't always a guaranteed escape.


So long as your AI code allows mobs to run right through us and attack from multiple directions on large pulls, this is a BAD change that will adversely effect tanking.

Show us with the teddy-bear where the bad Druid touched you.
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Draka
  • 13. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:34:51 AM PDT
quote reply
-edit-

[ Post edited by Bunnies ]


"If I had to describe my reaction in one word, that word would be... WTF?!?!"

-Richard Jeni 1957-2007
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 14. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:35:15 AM PDT
quote reply
They Mechanics of daze right nwo are working as intended High defense negates Daze that is the way they intended it to be

Smile Make My Day.. and someone elses's too
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 15. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:37:10 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
Anything that works to help ensure a player realizes or understands a mistake, unwise choice, and that potentially leads to a death is going to be unpopular. However, it's an important mechanic as it helps encourage caution and awareness.


Apparently tanking is an unwise choice.
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 16. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:39:01 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
They Mechanics of daze right nwo are working as intended High defense negates Daze that is the way they intended it to be


Wrong, Daze is not meant to be nullified, accept that truth. You are NOT meant to become immune to Daze, EVER, under any circumstance or with any possible gear.


Q u o t e:
Apparently tanking is an unwise choice.


Nope, the unwise choice would be to run behind that mob heading to the DPS-crazy mage/warlock/hunter/Shadow Priest while you're being hit by another, because you'll never catch up and the DPS'er is already dead. One more challenge to the control-impaired PUG DPS.

[ Post edited by Muriaticus ]


Trolls do it with their Alts
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 17. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:40:22 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:
The complaints that the mechanic was not working correctly and had increased or changed in the expansion is the only reason we investigated the mechanic further, and found an issue that we're now correcting.


You see what all you whiners did? You cried daze was OP and broken and got it BUFFED!

your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter
70
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • 18. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:40:27 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:


Apparently tanking is an unwise choice.


L2Strafe
80
View All Posts by This User Toggle Ignore / Unignore This User
  • Cenarion Circle
  • 19. Re: "Daze" and confused. Drysc?   09/13/2007 10:40:28 AM PDT
quote reply

Q u o t e:


Wrong, Daze is not meant to be nullified, accept that truth. You are NOT meant to become immune to Daze, EVER, under any circumstance or with any possible gear.


Then we cant tank more then one target at a time. EVER. But I bet Blizzard isn't going to remove the multi mob pulls.

So this change will make tanking very frustrating, and many people will just stop doing it all together. I guess thats one way to slow down people progress.

[ Post edited by Kujako ]


Show us with the teddy-bear where the bad Druid touched you.
1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 . 10 . 11 . 12 . 13 . 14 . 15 . 16 . 17 . 18 . 19 . 20
Forum Nav : Jump To This Forum
Blizzard Entertainment