World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Please clarify for the Warlocks

Triq

Arena Tournament 1

20. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 11:46:12 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Replace fear with Counterspell and you are saying we should nerf mages?

CC is OP when you are using 1v2 and 1 v3 situations.

Please post careful responses, other I will not even respond. I'll help you out a bit : I believe that are nerfing fear because ...

I love when people say "you are saying X"

and it has NOTHING to do with what I said. How is counterspell the same as fear? It has a 25 sec CD and doesnt last 10-6-2 secs.

If mages were doing the same thing with poly I would agree, please post LOGICAL responses otherwise you give NOONE a reason to respond.

Gutyu

The Venture Co

22. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 11:51:38 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

I love when people say "you are saying X"

and it has NOTHING to do with what I said. How is counterspell the same as fear? It has a 25 sec CD and doesnt last 10-6-2 secs.

If mages were doing the same thing with poly I would agree, please post LOGICAL responses otherwise you give NOONE a reason to respond.

Lol, it is a form of CC in a chain of CC, something youre using.

It is not the same as fear because a mage can do more dmg while their opponent is CS/Silenced that a warlocks dot can do while feared.

:)

Triq

Arena Tournament 1

23. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 11:56:37 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

Lol, it is a form of CC in a chain of CC, something youre using.

It is not the same as fear because a mage can do more dmg while their opponent is CS/Silenced that a warlocks dot can do while feared.

:)

And how many opportunities does a Mage get to do that kind of burst? 2-3 chances to setup a good shatter combo? It's a DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLE. You put up your dots and fear the other target while assisting your DPS partner. Mage and his partner do similar with with poly + dps partner but they get few opportunities to do it. Warlocks however play peel and reset over and over and over till the other team is out of CDs/mana or they get a decent window of small burst when the target is low on HP.

You don't know anything about PvP.

Triq

Arena Tournament 1

24. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 11:59:42 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
oh I see, you have to nerf warlocks because DK/Paladin/Warlocks are soooo OP. I get it.

Stop trolling. This is about the difference between a CC and a stun. Fear is being abused, stop wasting my time with these stupid attempts at being "sarcastic".

Gutyu

The Venture Co

26. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:09:36 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

And how many opportunities does a Mage get to do that kind of burst? 2-3 chances to setup a good shatter combo? It's a DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLE. You put up your dots and fear the other target while assisting your DPS partner. Mage and his partner do similar with with poly + dps partner but they get few opportunities to do it. Warlocks however play peel and reset over and over and over till the other team is out of CDs/mana or they get a decent window of small burst when the target is low on HP.

You don't know anything about PvP.

Ok let me help you again!

We are talking about fear, you are generalizing a whole lot of CC + Fear = OP.

I am telling you, you are wrong to assume a warlocks Fear is terribly OP compared to other forms of CC, that can allow for a certain amt of CC.

Warlocks can keep peeling huh?
trinket? cleanse? or lets say any of the countless abilities to go immune, but hey just saying,

You are using a 'group' stance, to neutralize this warlock from standing there and dotting everyone up and casting Fear as he pleases, get someone on him, anyone on him.

Gerrick

< Neltharions Fury >

Kael'thas

27. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:14:32 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Here's an idea, instead of relying on fear to do that damage. Rely on the ROGUE/DK/HUNTER/MAGE/PALLY/X whatever to do that damage. You're not there to get all the utility/damage/control yourself.

Thats why arenas are a group effort.
Thats why some classes have X utility and other classes have Y utility.
Thats why X + X sometimes becomes overpowered because its more than was intended.
Like Fear + Stuns.

Get the picture?

Yes, I get the picture, your belief is that Fear + Stuns are overpowered... but you have yet to make the case why it's more OP than any other combination of two distinct forms of CC.

Assuming you're right... fear is officially nerfed, 3.1 is live... why bother bringing the warlock to arenas at all? Other classes can do the same amount of damage much more quickly and provide the CC utility that you're saying Fear should be.

What role do you see warlocks playing in arenas? control? damage? how do we control when our main form of control has more counters than any other ability in the game?

Damage? We don't provide enough damage in a short enough period of time without the control. Destruction might be the sole exception to this come 3.1, but that's assuming Immolate doesn't continually get dispelled off your target; considering it has absolutely no dispel protection, good luck with that.

Amanfello

< Ascendence >

Eonar

28. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:16:32 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

So then how about this. Use your fear THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE USED. Fear + Blind/Poly one target, and use the STUNS from rogue/mage (our best arena partners) to kill something.

Catching on? STUN to kill, FEAR to CC. Obviously thats the way it was meant to be and if you can't tell, Blizzard feels the same which is why its being nerfed.

If you're rambling on about 1v1's in BGs and being inadequate then I suggest the following. Queue with the classes you have synergy with. Blizzard has said time and time again that PvP is a group game, not a solo game.

yes

Cannadrys

< Shadow Syndicate >

Mug'thol

30. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:21:23 PM PDT

Priests have a legitimate gripe about the fear change. Warlocks don't.

Twilight Vanquisher Cannadrys the Undying
Retribution... because I can.

Tellahx

< Death and Taxes >

Korgath

31. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:23:51 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Priests have a legitimate gripe about the fear change. Warlocks don't.

are you joking? Why play a warlock anymore if you can't dot everyone and still use fear? Explain to me what advantage we have over a mage. This change will kill affliction pvp and force people into destro and when people complain about conflag it will also be nerfed into the ground.

Triq

Arena Tournament 1

32. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:24:56 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

Ok let me help you again!

We are talking about fear, you are generalizing a whole lot of CC + Fear = OP.

I am telling you, you are wrong to assume a warlocks Fear is terribly OP compared to other forms of CC, that can allow for a certain amt of CC.

Warlocks can keep peeling huh?
trinket? cleanse? or lets say any of the countless abilities to go immune, but hey just saying,

You are using a 'group' stance, to neutralize this warlock from standing there and dotting everyone up and casting Fear as he pleases, get someone on him, anyone on him.

You're wasting my time. My "generalization" of spamming CC + fear is a crude reality in "balanced" arena. I'm guessing you've probably never even see what that is like.

I am telling you that you are wrong to assume Warlocks can use their fear offensively like I described. It's a matter of group utility. In arena you rely on not just your tools, but your partners tools. And if you have a mixture of tools that can completely lock someone out and kill them at the same time then the utility needs to be balanced among the classes.

The biggest problem is this misconception that you were somehow supposed to use fear like that in the first place. How can anyone believe that a class can just cast something not on CD and you and your friends should be allowed to spam damage into it for that 10 seconds with no penalty?

You want your warlock to be able to cast fear on targets as a form of CC/peal? Use your teammates to peel the person on you. Thats generally how LocK/healer/X goes. Damage on the person that is on the lock so the offensive pressure forces him to back off and your CC (this means fear) goes onto their healers or other DPS.

If you don't get that there's no reason to even respond to your posts. You're trying to be clever but you're failing hard.

Tok

Illidan

33. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:27:22 PM PDT

I think I understand what they OP is trying to say.

Paladin + Death Knight + Warlock is too good, the solution is to nerf the warlock.

Stuns + Fear is too good, the solution is to nerf fear.

Eriseley

< Seaghyn >

Emerald Dream

34. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:28:21 PM PDT

How about you just admit stuns are OP too? =}

Using Clitter while pregnant may result in sparkle babies.

Popomatic

< Unbound >

Gurubashi

35. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:29:52 PM PDT

It's nice to hear they are making it less dominant. Once they hosed tremor totem for both PvE and PvP again, any nerf to fear is well deserved.

Gutyu

The Venture Co

36. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:31:27 PM PDT

Q u o t e:

You're wasting my time. My "generalization" of spamming CC + fear is a crude reality in "balanced" arena. I'm guessing you've probably never even see what that is like.

I am telling you that you are wrong to assume Warlocks can use their fear offensively like I described. It's a matter of group utility. In arena you rely on not just your tools, but your partners tools. And if you have a mixture of tools that can completely lock someone out and kill them at the same time then the utility needs to be balanced among the classes.

The biggest problem is this misconception that you were somehow supposed to use fear like that in the first place. How can anyone believe that a class can just cast something not on CD and you and your friends should be allowed to spam damage into it for that 10 seconds with no penalty?

You want your warlock to be able to cast fear on targets as a form of CC/peal? Use your teammates to peel the person on you. Thats generally how LocK/healer/X goes. Damage on the person that is on the lock so the offensive pressure forces him to back off and your CC (this means fear) goes onto their healers or other DPS.

If you don't get that there's no reason to even respond to your posts. You're trying to be clever but you're failing hard.

Notice I never once attacked you or your knowledge, just your opinions, see i can make you feel silly w/o calling you silly ... skill ;)

You have to understand, you cannot use group mechanics to say nerf fear. Especially when you are totally ignoring the fact you are using a group stance but never mentioning the other group .. the warlocks group is killing this one guy, yes 1v3 is OP.

I can easily counter your group scenario by introducing a priest, hi priest spam dispel. The warlocks fear is gone now, but look at the the mages silence + burst is still there!! Nerf mages .. well, by your logic. :)

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

37. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:31:41 PM PDT

We don't like how much damage dots can do while a target is feared. It prevents us from being able to balance fear as needed as a defensive ability and it keeps us from being able to adjust locks or priests in other ways. We're trying to move PvP more into a place where you do X and someone counters with Y, and the "dot and fear" strategy just seemed too simple yet effective. Honestly, if the classes with fears didn't also have strong dots, it probably would not have been as much of a problem.

We don't think stuns needs a major change at this time. We dropped rogue PvP effectiveness in other ways, as I am sure they will be more than happy to explain to you. If we decide to make stuns break on damage right away then we would need to coordinate that with changes to rogue survivability. They are a melee class balanced around not taking much melee damage (because the target can't fight back). Locks and priests are by and large ranged classes.

Hinote

< Order of the Rose >

Feathermoon

39. Re: Please clarify for the Warlocks GC. 03/28/2009 12:33:41 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
We don't like how much damage dots can do while a target is feared. It prevents us from being able to balance fear as needed as a defensive ability and it keeps us from being able to adjust locks or priests in other ways. We're trying to move PvP more into a place where you do X and someone counters with Y, and the "dot and fear" strategy just seemed too simple yet effective. Honestly, if the classes with fears didn't also have strong dots, it probably would not have been as much of a problem.

We don't think stuns needs a major change at this time. We dropped rogue PvP effectiveness in other ways, as I am sure they will be more than happy to explain to you. If we decide to make stuns break on damage right away then we would need to coordinate that with changes to rogue survivability. They are a melee class balanced around not taking much melee damage (because the target can't fight back). Locks and priests are by and large ranged classes.

Cool, I hope this means we'll get balanced in other ways. I'm sure a lot of warlocks would be glad to not depend on Fear so much.

Where would the Spartans be if they looked at the Persian army and said "lol, just let them 5-cap"?

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